Over the next week, Concert Choir and Madrigal Singers will be considering the meaning of the text to Morten Lauridsen's Lament for Pasiphaë. Understanding the poem by Robert Graves will require some knowledge of the poet himself, as well as the references the poem makes to classical mythology.
(1) Please have a look at this short article about Robert Graves:
http://www.poets.org/poet.php/prmPID/193
Consider Grave's pre-occupation with mythology and his work in translating works from ancient
Rome and Greece.
(2) Who is Pasiphaë?
http://www.theoi.com/Titan/Pasiphae.html
(3) What do you think this poem is about? Here are some questions to guide you. Please craft a response that takes some of these questions into account.
What is a lament?
Consider the legend of Pasiphaë. How does this poem relate to her story?
Are there any places in the poem where Graves' language seems to reference mythology?
Who or what is the "dying sun"? What possible meanings, aside from mythology, could this "dying sun" take on?
What is with the "eye dazzed with tears"?
"You, sun, and I all afternoon have laboured beneath a dewless and oppressive cloud" -- what?
To what might the "night without a moon" refer?
What is the reference to "Spring's cuckoo"?
(4) Finally, "Lament" is the first movement from a cycle of choral songs entitled "Mid-Winter Songs". I have included the text of the other movements below for your consideration. It is interesting to note the points of connection from poem to poem. Perhaps some of the other texts might help you to shed some light on the meaning of "Lament".
I. Lament for Pasiphaë
Dying sun, shine warm a little longer!
My eye, dazzled with tears, shall dazzle yours,
Conjuring you to shine and not to move.
You, sun, and I all afternoon have laboured
Beneath a dewless and oppressive cloud--
a fleece now gilded with our commen grief
That this must be a night without a moon.
Dying sun, shine warm a little longer!
Faithless she was not: she was very woman,
Smiling with dire impartiality,
Sovereign, with heart unmatched, adored of men,
Until Spring's cuckoo with bedraggled plumes
Tempted her pity and her truth betrayed.
Then she who shone for all resigned her being,
And this must be a night without a moon.
Dying sun, shine warm a little longer!
II. Like Snow
She, then, like snow in a dark night,
Fell secretly. And the world waked
With dazzling of the drowsy eye,
So that some muttered 'Too much light,'
And drew the curtains close.
Like snow, warmer than fingers feared,
And to soil friendly;
Holding the histories of the night
In yet unmelted tracks.
III. She Tells Her Loves While Half Asleep
She tells her love while half asleep,
In the dark hours,
With half-words whispered low:
As Earth stirs in her winter sleep
And puts out grass and flowers
Despite the snow,
Despite the falling snow.
IV. Mid-Winter Waking
Stirring suddenly from long hibernation
I knew myself once more a poet
Guarded by timeless prinicipalities
Against the worm of death, this hillside haunting;
And presently dared open both my eyes.
O gracious, lofty, shone against from under,
Back-of-the-mind-far clouds like towers;
And you, sudden warm airs that blow
Before the expected season of new blossom,
While sheep still gnaw at roots and lambless go--
Be witness that on waking, this mid-winter,
I foudn her hand in mine laid closely
Who hsall watch out the Spring with me.
We stared in silence all around us
But found no winter anywhere to see.
V. Intercession in Late October
How hard the year dies: no frost yet.
On drifts of yellow sand Midas reclines,
Fearless of moaning reed or sullen wave.
Firm and fragrant still the brambleberries.
On ivy-bloom butterflies wag.
Spare him a little longer, Crone,
For his clean hands and love-submissive heart.
Yo! This song is dope. But in actuality this song is pretty interesting. It’s seems worthy of note that Graves decided to use an ancient Kretan goddess as opposed to using one of the equally tragic but significantly more mainstream Roman or Greek gods. Now. The title. Lament for Pasiphae, well a Lament is an expression of grief or mourning but not in the same way you generally mourn a death, more so how you empathize with a person undergoing hardship. So a Lament for Pasiphae is quite simply an expression of mournful pity towards the Kretan moon goddess Pasiphae. Now, what’s so special about Pasiphae and why does she get a lament? Well Pasiphae was cursed and as a result was forced to giver birth to the Minotaur after a bull impregnated her. This was coupled with the fact that her husband was promiscuous and slept around (Pasiphae retaliating by poisoning his ejaculate, nice). Onwards to the poem. Well one of the first phrases you hear in this song is “Dying Sun”. This could be a simple metaphor for her existence darkening because of a lack of light or hope in her life. This could also be referring to Pasiphae’s father, Helios the sun god, in this situation the dying sun could be indicating a desire to return to the innocence and simplicity of childhood, or maybe the just the safety and comfort of one’s fathers company. The reference to “dazzled with tears” is a way of restating the fact that this is indeed a lament and the poet is expressing grief in it, the idea of “dazzling yours” might be the idea of impressing someone with your empathy. Alternatively, this could mean that the realization of Pasiphae (or whatever love interest she represents for Graves) that another feels compassion towards her could by itself bring her to tears, once again hinting at how desperate she is. The phrase “You, sun, and I have labored between a dewless and oppressive cloud” is the most interesting in my opinion. In my mind there’s a bit of wordplay going on in that when sung this really sounds like “You, son, and I…” as if instructing a child. In actuality sun refers to the dying sun mention previously, either a source of hope or Helios. The cloud is obviously covering the sun in this situation, which could be the cause for the dying sun. The cloud is dewless probably because clouds are often affiliated with the idea of rain (similar to dew). But if this cloud is dewless it doesn’t even represent the benefit of the growth and beauty that comes with rain. Indeed its sole purpose is to seemingly choke out the sun.
ReplyDeleteThis is the second half of my comment. This is where the use of oppressive comes in. The idea of laboring under this cloud comes with how the source of hope, the sun, is choked out which makes it so that just about any action is going to seem less enjoyable, indeed maybe even laborious. The next key phrase is “night without a moon”. Well, Pasiphae is the moon goddess so this could be referring Pasiphae growing weak, maybe because of her apparent desperation, which means that it is probably not referring to the moon literally not being present, but instead that the moon might not shine as brightly anymore, alluding to the cause for this lament, to restore Pasiphae. “Springs cuckoo” I think refers to Pasiphae’s unfaithful husband. Graves mentions that Pasiphae was adored of men, stereotypical for a goddess, but she came upon a cuckoo, pretty much a rooster, with bedraggled plumes, and that its terrible condition tempted her pity. This makes it seem as though she pitied her husband, Minos, and her presence to him, as well to any man, was a gift and a chore at the same time. The main reason you can see the reference to Minos is at the end of the phrase when “her trust [was] betrayed” from the knowledge of mythology it seems this could only be referring to her adulterous husband. I think that the enter poem is a huge metaphor towards Laura Riding, Graves’ love interest and long time associate. If we think of Riding as Pasiphae there are some interesting connections. The idea of “night without a moon” gains more light when compared to Riding’s attempted suicide in 1929, interestingly enough this is believed to have been caused by the drama following the break up of Graves’ first marriage. This makes it seem like a plea from Graves to Riding for her to not leave this word, for she is like the moon to him, shedding light in dark times. The idea of the “Spring cuckoo” could be referring to Ridings’ marriage to Schulyer Jackson in 1941, who Graves could have viewed as unworthy. So in essence this song seems to be a massive expression of sorrow for Laura Riding and maybe her depression by Graves who seemed to truly admire her, not surprising as she is often credited with being his greatest influence. So ends my dissertation on Lament for Pasiphae. To end where I began, dope song (Except for the third dying sun where the bass parts like a seventh or something I hate that). Also screw this 4096 character limit, I was only like 200 characters over.
ReplyDeleteAnd 100 points to Slytherin for first post.
DeleteGreat thoughts, Rory. While I think we need to be careful not to inject too much of Grave's personal experience into this poem, I think you have hit on some really interesting ideas. I especially like the idea of the "dying sun" having a connection with youth and innocence. I think you are on the right track there, though, I believe the sun represents Pasiphaë herself (as daughter of Apollo/Helios). Have you considered the Pagan meaning to the dying sun or night without a moon?
DeleteAnd yes, Quentin, I think Slytherin deserves some points for having the first post to the blog. 20 points is in order, I think.
DeleteWell I did some research in terms of Pagan symbolism, especially in relation to the moon and sun. What I found is that Paganism emphasizes a strong relation between the sun, earth, and moon and nature. The spherical shape of these planets is used as an image of balance, equality, and nature. I found it extremely interesting (especially since I find it amazing that this symbolism has not been applied in modern literature but i digress) that Pagans find a symbolism in how the earth orbits the sun, and in turn the moon orbits the earth (you can take it an extra level saying the sun orbits the center of the milky way but once again i digress) they view this phenomenon as a symbol for reincarnation and for lack of a better term "THE CIRCLE OF LIIIIIFFFFEEE" - Elton John/LHS choral (food chains, ecosystems, interconnectedness and what not). Using this interpretation it draws a parallel between the dying sun and night without a moon so they essentially are hinting at the same person not a separate one. Thus the idea of no sun or moon can be seen as a disruption in the "circle of life" which I interpreted as the narrators circle, speaking of the importance of pasiphae. The idea of reincarnation also is interesting in this metaphor as Pasiphae is obviously immortal so reincarnation means nothing to her (maybe thats one way she disrupts the symbol). The circle (seen in orbit and the planets) also is given strong ties to the image of women, especially the womb (WEAR THE MINOTAUR WAS BORN). So thats what I got for pagan symbolism in the moon and the sun. One last point it seems strange that the sun, used as a symbol for reincarnation, is dying.
DeleteAlso of note, I was Googling some shtuff on Graves today and stumbled across this quote (actually part of the same letter Harry quotes) "The Lament is for all true women (including my true Muse) who allow themselves to be defeated by patriarchal ways of thought. " This was written in a letter to P.B. Eldridge. So forgoing any subtext for a moment the poem is either about feminism as a whole or just a way of condemning patriarchial oppression.
DeleteRory - I think your post has some very interesting thoughts, and I was particularly intrigued by your conjectures regarding double meanings within the poem. Even though I’m not sure I agree with your idea of wordplay in “You, sun, and I...”, I think your comparison to Graves’ personal life is a very important aspect of the composition, given the fact that Graves had been, according to your post, exposed to a similar situation. I also liked reading your post on Pagan beliefs and symbolisms: do you think they tie in directly with the interpretation Graves gives, or is he focusing solely on the mythology given? I can see how he could be interspersing some personal life into the poem, but I think he is confining his writing to the mythology, based on the “true” story of Pasiphaë. Finally, I really liked how you explained certain symbolisms, like the “dazzled eyes” and the “Dying sun”, which I interpreted solely as her downfall, and the repudiation she endured..."Safety and comfort", as you said, are states of being which she can only dream of with Minos, so I think your idea is accurate. Thanks for the awesome post - it has given me a different perspective on the piece!
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteOn a technical note, to "lament," by definition, is "to mourn, usually a person's loss or death." Just saying.
ReplyDeletePasiphae was not worthy of pity; she really brought it on herself. In the version I'm familiar with, she mocked Aphrodite, who in a vindictive rage, used bestiality to mess with her. Offending the gods is not something to be pitied, unless you pity them for their death wish/idiocy.
I believe this poem is based on the viewpoint of the minotaur. Pasiphae, as his mother, may be the light, or sun, of his existence. However, this light is growing dim, because he's a beastly atrocity who, as we know, is being confined to the depths of a labyrinth. As a result, he has been forcibly separated from his mother, and any possible warmth and love is being wiped away as he rots away in his dank prison. He pleads for the light of his existence, his mother, to grace him with her warmth a little longer.
"You, sun, and I have laboured, etc" I believe literally refers to the minotaur's birth- I have no doubt that Pasiphae experienced much pain/labor while in labor (imagine those horns). Perhaps the birth occurred "beneath a dewless and oppressive cloud," as Minos was humiliated at the thought of his wife fornicating with anyone, much less an animal, and thus forced her to bear the child in secret, or beneath a cloud of secrecy.
What "tempted her pity" and caused her to "betray her trust"? The bull, or perhaps "Spring's cuckoo". Spring is when "a young man's light fancy turns to love," or when animals awakening from their hibernation find their reproductive hormones raging. Thus, perhaps "spring" is devoted to Aphrodite, whom without all this sex and madness would never be able to occur. A cuckoo is a bird, supposedly whose call heralds the coming of Spring. The bull, as Aphrodite's instrument of revenge, heralded the vindication of "Spring".
I really doubt Pasiphae pitied her husband. It's unlikely that she'd have made him ejaculate serpents and scorpions and other unpleasant things otherwise.
"Her trust [was] betrayed" does not refer to Minos's infidelity. The editing/typo is deceptive; "her trust was betrayed" differs from "her truth betrayed". "Her truth betrayed" indicates that she was the traitorous one, not Minos (although he was too, but that's not the point). It's like "her truth betrayed her"; or simply, she was untruthful.
Oops. the quote is "When a young man's fancy lightly turns to love,"
DeleteGreat thoughts, Wesley. You have delved deep into the mythology here. The idea that the lament is "sung" by the Minotaur is very intriguing. Consider Pasiphaë pitiable in the sense that she had a fall from grace--the writers of the mythology denigrated her from a sun goddess worthy of worship to an all-too-human mistress of a bull! Could this not be a metaphor for the turning away from the Pagan "eternal feminine" in our modern, patriarchal society? Or perhaps Pasiphaë represents something else...
DeleteI think that what’s already been said does a great job explaining the connection between the poem Lament For Pasiphae and the story of Pasiphae in Greek mythology, but after a little more in depth research, (by which I mean mostly Wikipedia,) I came across an interesting tidbit of information. Graves wrote an essay titled “The White Goddess: A Historical Grammar of Poetic Myth,” in which he portrays the White Goddess of Birth, Love, and Death. This goddess, who Graves said was often represented by the goddesses in European and pagan mythologies, was commonly depicted as the moon. There’s little doubt, then, that he’s directly alluding to the White Goddess when he mentions Pasiphae, who was one of the earliest representations of a moon goddess.
ReplyDeleteSo back to the poem, the phrase “you, sun, and I have laboured beneath a dewless and oppressive cloud” seems to me to be a message to the sun from the moon, voicing the troubles that both of them share, in lighting the earth and protecting it from the darkness that we’d be exposed to, both physical, and metaphorical, if they didn’t shine light on our lives. I also think that the “dying sun” is actually a reference to the onset of winter, with days becoming shorter and nights becoming longer. I mean it makes a lot of sense, seeing as the cycle of poems is called Mid-Winter Songs, and this is the first one, in other words, the beginning of winter. I think that in the second part of the poem, he’s talking about winter, who is then tempted by “Spring’s cuckoo,” which simply means that winter is inevitably tempted by spring, and is bound to end. The phrase “then she who shone for all resigned her being” could refer to the moon having to give more and more time to the sun as winter becomes spring. As for the night without a moon, this could refer to a new moon, and the moon, knowing she can’t illuminate the night asks the sun to “shine warm a little longer.” So even though its title makes reference to Greek mythology, this poem appears to really be about the seasons.
I also noticed that the moon seems to be the focus of the second poem as well, “dazzling the drowsy eye,” and “holding the histories of the night.” The latter line I really like, I feel like it evokes secrets, mysteries of the night that only the moon knows.
So yeah, as Rory so eloquently put it, “dope song.” I really feel like, as cheesy as it sounds, I’ve gone from looking for stuff to say about the poem to actually finding a meaning that I find really fascinating, and while laying all of this out I’ve convinced myself that this is exactly what Graves wanted us to get out of it.
Wow, Quentin! Excellent response, and your additional research has revealed an important point about Graves and his obsession with this "eternal feminine White Goddess". See if you can find out what the cuckoo is a symbol for. You are really on to something here! The dying sun does, indeed, seem to allude to the change of the seasons, and the shortening of the days. But all of this is, naturally, metaphorical. But for what? Thanks for looking the other poems. Note that it was not Graves the poet, but Lauridsen the composer who put the poems together into this set. Nevertheless, you can't help note the connections of the imagery (moon, seasons)--check out the mythological references in the last poem as well.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWhile I was researching a bit on this poem and Robert Graves I found something interesting that Graves said. He claims, “I am so sorry my poems are set for analysis: poems are not for analysis. They are addressed to the heart & mind, not the logical brain.” I think that this is an interesting take on poetry because many poets are not clear and use many analogies in their writing, leaving their work up for debate. Also, I found it hypocritical as the meaning of Graves work is not clear at all.
ReplyDeleteThe song references “dying sun” a LOT in the beginning of the song. I think this is a reference to Pasiphae’s father as he is the sun god. Maybe Pasiphae’s eyes are “dazzled with tears” because she is sad. I am a bit confused as to why the eyes shall “dazzle yours” but since Pasiphae is immortal I am guessing that Pasiphae is speaking to the human race and is going to do something to them. Just a guess though.
Musically, “you, sun and I have labored beneath a dewless and oppressive cloud” is a line that I love. Naturally, I wanted to figure out what this line means. I think the sun is a reference to her father and I is herself. You refers to the people (humans). As for the second half I think that it is a reference to someone they are working under. I am not sure who, but I am inclined to guess Pasiphae’s husband because she seems to have ill feelings for him.
I had a question that I hope someone else would be able to answer. If the mid-winter poems are part of a group of poetry, are they all about Pasiphae and if not why are they grouped together as a set of poems? What do they have in common that links them? I wasn’t sure so I was hoping someone else would know.
I think that because we all have different opinions of this song Graves is somewhat of a hypocrite because he doesn’t believe poems should be analyzed. That being said, maybe the analyzing of poetry is not wrong, and it just grows our appreciation for the piece of writing.
-Harry Nichols
I agree with a lot of what other people have already said. Pasiphae, the moon, was the daughter of Helios the sun – and I feel that Pasiphae sort of represents both the sun and the moon in this poem. “Dying sun” I think refers to Pasiphae’s descent from a goddess to when she lusts for a bull, and becomes an animal that seeks only creature comforts. “She who shone for all” was tempted away in the springtime, and “resigned her being” to the bull I guess literally, and in a larger sense she gave up her morals and her identity; she foregoes love for lust. This might be kind of a stretch, but “a night without a moon” could refer to a time of no thought, no reflection – like how the moon reflects the sun’s light. It’s a time of darkness, literally and morally.
ReplyDeleteAddressing Harry’s question, Lauridsen, the composer chose these poems and put them together into a choral set. All the poems talk about winter and what it represents. In the context of all the poems, the Lament is fitting as the first because it is about the coming of winter, the descent into darkness. The second, “Like Snow,” that says “too much light/ and drew the curtains close,” makes me think that light represents trueness and purity – which are too hard to look at when times have been so false. The fourth movement entitled “Mid-Winter Awakening,” talks about a coming out of a “long hibernation” and “[daring to] open both my eyes.” The seasons are interesting in this context because they are universal; everyone has their “winter” or times of darkness, falsity. These poems talk about falling in and out of winter, and I think are chosen and put together very well!
My favorite lines from the whole cycle (is that what it’s called? Is that a reference to seasons?), are from the third movement: “She tells her love while half asleep/…/Despite the snow/Despite the falling snow” I think these lines are very fittingly subtle and offer hope, saying that even during this half-asleep, despite the cold, darkness of winter – there is hope, there is love.
Kelly Zhang
Kelly I really liked how you interpreted the poem. Your interpretation of “Dying sun” makes perfect sense; I might have taken it too literally. I also liked how you broke up the poem into small pieces and explained how they all symbolize the fall of Pasiphae as a human and as a woman.
DeleteLooking at the whole piece, as you have pointed out all poems talk about winter, which gives dark feeling for some parts. I also think it talks about two sides of winter: the winter approaching and the winter going away. The poems are not just about the winter, they also refer to love and death, as you might have implied already.
My favorite part of the piece is also the third movement. I love how it illustrates a woman in love so well in such a short poem. I also think that the woman is also desperate because she is thinking about her love even when she’s half-alseep.
-Christine C.
The first thing I would like to mention is that the poetic definition of a lament is slightly different from the definitions that have already been presented. The definition in The Longman Dictionary of Poetic Terms is as follows: a nonnarrative poem expressing deep grief (from Latin for “wailing, weeping).
ReplyDeleteI think that this poem grieves Pasiphae’s fall from dignity. The first line of the poem refers to the sunset. “Dying sun, shine warm a little longer!” The person saying this clearly does not want night to come. He hopes that his grief and tears (which are “dazzling” his eyes) will in some way convince the sun to “shine and not to move” – delaying the onset of a dark night. But why does he dread the night? The next few lines of the poem cause the reader to believe that the narrator and the sun share some burdensome “cloud” of heartache – “That this must be a night without a moon!” The moon, which represents Pasiphae, will not shine tonight, because she is no longer faithful, pure, and steadfast. The author can’t bear the night without the hopeful light of the moon, and the sun has lost its eternal partner, who shares the responsibility of lighting the Earth. Both grieve.
The next stanza makes it clear that the author does not believe that Pasiphae herself was responsible for her downfall. She was just a woman, he claims. He praises her, insisting that she was not faithless, that she was “sovereign, with heart unmatched.” No, it was the bull’s fault for tempting her. I think that “Spring’s cuckoo” represents the bull. Cuckoo birds raise their young in the nests of other birds, making them a perfect metaphor for an adulterer’s other lover. In this case, the bull caused Pasiphae to become with child although she already belonged to Minos. And he wasn’t even good-looking! He was a bull! This is expressed in the description “…with bedraggled plumes.”
“Then she who shone for all resigned her being/ And this must be a night without a moon.” In these final lines, the narrator solidifies that Pasiphae’s fall is the reason for the moonless night. Pasiphae once shone pure and true, but she can no longer show her face due to the shame that has befallen her. She has abandoned her duties as a faithful light-provider, and has been consumed instead with dark, revengeful curses and twisted plots.
Sonia, I really like you’re interpretation that this is about Pasiphae’s fall from dignity, because I thought it was just telling the story about how Pasiphae lost her love. It’s a new direction that I didn’t really think of. You wrote about how the main character doesn’t want the sun to set, so his eyes dazzle with tears of grief. I actually interpreted this that the main character has tears in his eyes that are brought from watching the sun (like your eyes water when you walk into someplace bright), which is crazy bright even though it’s setting. The main character tries to enjoy the sun while he can because he knows he can’t stop it from setting. I thought this might be a moral about how we should live life to the fullest and enjoy what we can because we can’t stop time or stop the sun from setting and every day from passing. I don’t know, just a thought.
DeleteAlso, I love that you kind of defended Pasiphae because it seems that a lot of people have been trying to put some blame on her. Everything that you said about the bull and the cuckoo make total sense! It’s unfair to turn Pasiphae into the bad guy when everyone overlooks the bull’s participation in the whole ordeal. Plus, no one wakes up in the morning and thinks, “Gee, I really hate myself today. I think I’ll go find a bull and get pregnant. That would totally rock. In fact, I think bulls are totally hot. I’ll cheat on my husband, and maybe find a giant hollow cow to have me illegitimate child in. That sounds like a great adventure for the day!” So not only is it completely illogical to blame Pasiphae, it’s also super creepy and insulting of her virtue, because she was cursed into the whole mess.
Finally, you finish your post with something about how Pasiphae is consumed by twisted plots, as if her life is a script already written out, and someone came in and scribbled out have the lines and rewrote them. I agree with everything else you said, but I think it’s possible that Pasiphae’s doom was planned from the beginning. After all, the gods make the Minotaur, Pasiphae’s son, the protector of the labyrinth (I think). So maybe they had Pasiphae’s misery decided as soon as she was born (possibly as revenge to her father kronos for making a mess of the world), because they needed someone to protect the labyrinth, and maybe even just wanted to watch someone’s life fall apart (the gods were mean . . .). Anyway, I really liked reading your post because you brought up a bunch of great points that I would have never thought about!! ☺
Sara Mael
Sara, your literal take on how the sun really does dazzle you when you watch it set is pretty cool; even though it's blinding and brings tears to your eyes, you can't quite tear your gaze away, maybe?
DeleteAs for the bit where "It's the bull's fault," I think I'll have to politely disagree. The bull didn't charge into her room and demand to have it hot and spontaneous right then and there. Pasiphae went to her buddy Daedalus the inventor and demanded that he make her a hollow bull costume. She planned it all out; she wasn't a victim, but rather the instigator. Admittedly, getting horny over a bull (pun) wasn't her fault, but rather Aphrodite's, but it was stupid of her for getting Aphrodite mad in the first place...
Posting on behalf of Sahana:
DeleteI think that in some versions of this myth, Pasiphaë is punished because of her own error (offending Aphrodite). If that is the case, then perhaps her punishment is justified. But in other versions, including the one I am familiar with, the gods punished King Minos because he refused to sacrifice a bull to Zeus. As a way of punishing Minos, they made his wife, Pasiphaë, have a child with that bull. This was intended to be humiliating for the king. From that version of the story, there is a very clear example of female oppression. The humiliation Pasiphaë would face herself, or the pain she would go through to give birth to a child that was half-bull was not considered. She was merely regarded as a possession of her husband, and to put her through this ordeal was an equal punishment for Minos. If Minos was madly in love with his wife, this might have been an okay punishment for him, but he wasn't even upset that this was happening to his wife. He was just embarrassed that people would find out that his wife would rather have sex with a bull... and then he cheated on her with other people. So really, his "punishment" brought pain and humiliation to an honorable woman just because she had the misfortune of being married to an insensitive idiot. Going back to the poem, Graves may be mourning not only Pasiphaë's loss of honor, but the loss of respect for women in general and the flaws of a patriarchal society.
Thanks,
Sahana
I think in order to sing Lament for Pasiphae as it should be sung, we need to look at Lauridsen's entire work to really understand the idea that he was trying to get across. Some additional research has stated that Lauridsen, when picking which poems by Robert Graves to use, used poems that reflected Graves' infatuation with his mistress, Laura Riding, and his second wife, Beryl. At some point in every movement, a female is addressed, so Lauridsen seems to be incorporating a bit of the feminism that Graves addressed in his works, such as the White Goddess that Quentin addressed and Seven Days in New Crete, a novel written by Graves that featured a matriarchal society, because of the affection that he felt towards these women in his life. I think that Lauridsen's main objective with Mid-Winter Songs is to talk about the evolution of a year, centered around winter, that represents the evolution of Graves' own love life. Regarding the Lament for Pasiphae, Graves said, "The Lament is for all true women (including my true Muse) who allow themselves to be defeated by patriarchal ways of thought." Lauridsen begins with Lament in order to set the scene for the rest of the work. Because of Mid-Winter Songs' central idea of femininity, the role of Lament is to talk about the blight of women by using Pasiphae's own as an example.
ReplyDeleteSabrina Sarmiento
Sabrina-- I love the way you approached the text by looking at Lauridsen's other works and finding the parallels between Grave's personal life and his poetry. Your response made me consider a lot of things I hadn't thought of (such as this idea of the Mid-Winter Songs simply being about the changing year and how that coordinated with Grave's own love life). I like this idea of Grave's poetry being more personal and feminine rather than just portraying the Greek myth in a different light.
DeleteI completely agree with this post in the respect that I think that at least listening to, if not sight reading or working on the other movements to Lauriden's work would be really beneficial. Although music is different then every other art form, taking one movement out of a piece of work is somewhat like reading a chapter in a book with no prior context. I think a lot could be uncovered, aside from what Sabrina has already unearthed, about Lauridsen's reasoning behind composing this piece by studying the other movements to the work as a whole. Great idea Sabrina, I completely agree!
DeleteAlex Sheena
I agree with you, Sabrina. Every author takes something from their own life to build their story, or in this case, their poem. By using his own life experiences, Grave could embed real emotions and character into his poem, which makes the poem even more interesting and attractive. I also think it's interesting that Grave uses Pasiphae as a comparison or representative of feminism, and I agree that this choice has to do with his love life. The fact that Riding left him might make Grave a bit more cautious, and perhaps even hateful of feminism.
DeleteSabrina, you bring up a good point that in a way, all pieces of art are somewhat semi-autobiographical. Lauridsen was clearly deeply affected by the women in his life. This could have led him to have a more sympathetic response to the story. Wesley stated earlier that there are other versions of the myth in which Pasiphe is looked down upon and treated as a sinner. However, Lauriden made a clear choice to portray her as a relatable character because of his fondness of women.
DeleteIt IS an indictment on the patriarchal mindset that permeates classical mythology. Yes, it is true that some powerful women in mythology were able, in their own ways, to exact some form of revenge on the stupid men who populate the stories alongside them. But, it is even more true that in more cases than not, what is "good for the goose" so often is not "good for the gander". Viewing the lament through this lens (and consider that Graves called it a "lament"--not "let's put Pasiphaë on trial"), Pasiphaë's fall from grace (likened on some levels to the Biblical fall of Adam and Eve) is brought on first and foremost by the men in the story. You might personally judge Pasiphaë equally at fault, but Graves does not.
DeleteThe second stanza of Graves’ poem greatly resembles the ideas portrayed in the legend of Pasiphaë. She lived as a woman, until something happened to her and caused her to retreat into “the darkness.” Basically, she “shone for all,” until she was cursed, where she then secluded herself from society into what I interpret is “darkness.” I feel as if the “dying sun” could very easily represent Rider in this text. He wants her to stay (“shine warm a little longer”), and hopes for her to keep “shining” in his life, and in his sadness of her leaving (“my eye, dazzled with tears”) desires her to stay (“conjuring you to shine and not to move”). He relates himself to Pasiphaë by relating his sun, Rider, to her sun, her father. He wants Rider to stay with him, and Pasiphaë wants her father to protect her from the curse that is being brought upon her. The “dewless and oppressive cloud,” in my opinion, refers to another man coming to shield out the “light” of Rider from Graves’ life, and in Pasiphaë’s story, refers to the curse that envelops her and hides her from her previous life, trapping her in the life her curse brings to her. Graves and Rider were separated after working (laboring) beneath the “oppressive cloud,” which eventually took Rider away from Graves. Similarly, Pasiphaë, with her father, tries to deny this curse; however, it soon takes her. Hopefully this is at least marginally understandable; I know that I can tend to spew out many different ideas at once. Sorry if my analysis is a bit confusing.
ReplyDelete-Noah Virgile
Noah-
DeleteAlthough your response was a bit confusing at times, I think that you did a very good job of focusing on both the connection of the poet and Pasiphae to the text and on the parallelism between the poet's life and that of the goddess. I also liked that you dissected each individual line of the text.
The definition of a lament that I received was a deep expression of sorrow, regret or grief.
ReplyDeleteI believe that this poem is expressing Pasiphae’s transformation from a faithful lover to an indecent one. The first line of the poem “Dying sun, shine warm a little longer!” reveals that, like Sonia said, the person does not want night to come. They are begging for the sun to stay in the sky and not set because they do not want the moon, or Pasiphae, to come out. Then, when the lamenter says, “My eye, dazzled with tears, shall dazzle yours”, they are saying that if the sun allows the moon to come out, the rest of the people will too regret it and feel the sorrow that the person saying this is feeling. The author is trying to save everyone else from the danger of the moon. However, the lamenter is also trying to convince the sun (“Conjuring you to shine and not to move”) to stay in the sky with his previous comment referring to the many other people that will be negatively affected by the moon’s presence. Throughout the next few lines, the person saying this is still trying to convince the sun to stay in the sky. The person says that “you, sun, and I have labored” and goes on later to say “our common grief”, which implies that the sun and the lamenter have both been burdened by the “dewless and oppressive cloud”, and share the same concerns and grief. Last, when the person saying this begs that “this must be a night without a moon. Dying sun, shine warm a little longer!” they are trying once again to persuade the sun to stay in the sky because they do not want Pasiphae to come out.
The next stanza tries to explain why the lamenter is so afraid of the moon by telling Pasiphae’s story. It says, “Faithless she was not…Until Spring’s cuckoo with bedraggled plumes tempted her pity and her truth betrayed.” Those lines reveal that Pasiphae was once a devoted partner, but when she was tempted by “Spring’s cuckoo”, or the bull, she loses her dignity. Then, when it says “She who shone for all resigned her being”, it is illustrating how she was once looked up to and was a powerful, wonderful goddess, but because of her vulgar actions, she was no longer able to hold up that position. The lamenter then comes out one last time to plead with the sun: “And this must be a night without a moon. Dying sun, shine warm a little longer!”
Interesting thought about wanting the sun to remain so that the moon does not come out. Graves worries about a "night without a moon". How might you reconcile your interpretation of Pasiphaë as the moon with Grave's concern about a night without a moon?
DeleteThe collection of Mid-Winter songs are poems that carry both heavy metaphorical meanings as well as deep portrayal of human feelings of loneliness, desertion, and hope. Lament, as mentioned previously, is the grieving of something or someone, the deep sorrow that comes usually with change. This is both evident in the rotation of the seasons to the winter and the change related to Grave’s life. In addition to looking at the mythology associated with the text, I believe that it’s also important to look at the author’s life and see the correlation between his product and its source. The legend of Pasiphae is constant and looming in the mood of the poem and the plot line and its influence is evident in all the later poems of Grave’s life. But the story also calls upon an insight to Grave’s relationships, the desertion of women and the great horrors of war. Like in the myth, Minos and Graves have many relationships and are constantly changing places, being unfaithful and unpredictable. Grave’s life included moments where he experienced loss, loneliness and hopelessness, which drove him to write about beauty, a sudden light in a sea of confusion. The hurt that resulted from all these changes also shows up in the spell that Pasiphae cast upon Minos in order to make him suffer for his misbehavior. Mythology provided Graves a way to place fictional characters into real life to relate them and have an explanation for the occurrences that so dramatically shaped the poems
ReplyDeleteThe language used by Graves is very mysterious, yet it also touches very conscious knowledge and is calming in its tone. The “dying sun” is on the verge of disappearing, tears are “dazzling,” snow is falling, and yet the earth is quite. The White Goddess roams as the moon and has a constant presence as she “conjures” people to shine, casting her power upon the white snow and diving between a character and a metaphor. The great chaos of Pasiphae’s rise and fall is contrasting the mood of the poem that seems to hush and shroud it, disguising the pain behind the downfall. The dying sun, although it disappears on the horizon, continues to shine through the moon at night, and the plead: “shine warm a little longer” symbolizes the hope and faith in it returning. It becomes a symbol of hope both for a better tomorrow, as well as a hope that people who have fallen like Pasiphae still have a light that they can follow to regain a lost honor.
This is a beautifully spoken thought. I think that the calming, mysterious tone that Graves created reflected one of the beliefs expressed in the article Mr. I had us read. It said that he had a “theory of poetry as spiritually cathartic to both the poet and the reader.” I had to look up the meaning of cathartic, which is “providing psychological relief through the expression of strong emotions.” You really spoke to this aspect of Graves’ poetry. In this poem, he certainly is expressing a deep pain, which may very well have been founded in his personal experiences in war and relationships. Poetry seems to have been his way of expressing his feelings and relieving his pain by sharing it with the reader.
DeleteShai,
DeleteI completely agree with your comments about how Grave’s poems reflect his life and his sorrows. Additionally, I find your last comment particularly intriguing. I never thought of “shine warm a little longer” to have the meaning of hope. However, after reading your comment, I understand your reasoning and it changes my point of view on the meaning of the poems as well. Your idea gives the poem a much more optimistic ending and gives Pasiphae a chance to redeem herself. Whereas I initially believed Pasiphae to be a character forever doomed to her curse. You present brilliant points that are profound and meaningful. Thanks for your great insight!
~Jessi
Lovely. Your response to the poetry is poetry itself. :)
DeleteThe legend of Pasiphae tells the story of Pasiphae who was a daughter of the sun god named Helios. I think the first couple of lines could refer to the fact that she is pleading to her father (the sun god) to not let go of his life and to hold on. Also, I don’t know if some of you noticed but the translation of Pasiphae means all shining. In the poem, it says "shine warm a little longer" which I think means that she wants to live on her father’s glory in a way, and shine for him.
ReplyDeleteAside from Mythology, "shine warm a little longer", could be referred to how the day and light should be longer and keep going. "My eye dazzled with tears" I think could mean kind of what Jessi said about how people will be upset if the moon comes out and the sun goes away. They just want the day to go on forever without night and maybe they are scared and want day to continue because something bad will come over them, which is why they are lamenting and telling the sun “conjuring you to shine, and not to move.”
When it transitions into the "faithless she was not…Until Spring’s cuckoo" part, many people have been saying that it refers to the story of Pasiphae and I agree completely that she was tempted by the spring's cuckoo and she ruined her faith by temptation (kind of like the story of Adam and Eve in a way) Finally, "Then she who shone for all resigned her being/ And this must be a night without a moon" can mean that she cant be the figure she wanted to be in the beginning (as "shining" for her father) because she betrayed her faith and now has to face the consequences.
Caroline, I thought your interpretation of this piece was very insightful and I found the focus you took on Pasiphae's father, the sun god named Helios, to be interesting and unique. Translating "Pasiphae" was a great idea and helped aid my understanding. Lastly, connecting the temptation by Spring's cuckoo to temptation in the story of Adam and Eve was especially fascinating, since one of the aspects I focused on in my interpretation was the pagan meaning of "dying sun." Thank you for your observant and canny response! You really used your noodle..
DeleteI would like to focus on one motif that is common in all portions of this amazing piece: The dying sun and how it may relate to someone or something who is experiencing pain. While viewing the text, the metaphors of "dying sun," oppressive labor, and grief provided a plethora of ideas that really made me pensive about mainly the first portion. The sun, could, and may be another person who the "I" in the piece is perhaps conversing with. The dying sun I believe could represent someone who needs to "keep going", and cannot lost faith or hope. The "shine warm a little longer" text is inferred as a sort of optimism for the sun. In the line, "You, sun, and I all afternoon have laboured Beneath a dewless and oppressive cloud," shows that there is something that is bringing the sun down, or filling it with grief. Simply this could show why the sun is "dying." All in all, an influx of ideas when I was writing this comment came into my head, but I believe that Lament for Pasiphae was written by a grandiloquent author who, in the first few lines, is trying to show how a bit of help from another person or figure could mitigate grief and pain. -Brendan Appelman
ReplyDeleteBrendan - I really enjoy your view on this piece of art because I, personally, didn't think about it this way at all. I thought about it in terms of Pasiphae but now that you do say so, I too believe this song can pertain to all people who are experiencing pain. However, you take this one step further by saying that this person needs to keep going. I don't think it says that anywhere in the song and that is open for interpretation. I agree that they do need to push through the pain but I think that through the song we are supposed to communicate that even though it doesn't say that specifically in the lyrics. Thank you Benito, for opening my eyes to another meaning this song takes on.
Delete-Harry Nichols
PS: I really enjoyed your word choice #grandiloquent
My interpretation of this song is that it is about Helios' daughter Pasiphae, and her hardships. To me, "Dying Sun", which is repeated several times throughout the song makes me think of the hard times that people suffer. It shows how the light is soon going to be lost and night will come, as well as depressing moments. "Shine warm a little longer" means that they want the sun to stay out and the moon to stay away, because they dont want darkness or night to come yet. One of the very interesting parts of the song is when "my eye dazzled with tears shall dazzle yours" is sung. When I read this it made me think of the domino effect, and how if one person cries, others will start to cry as well. As a whole the entire song and poem sets a sad mood and has a crucial meaning behind Grave and his relationships and thoughts.-Natalie Puschak
ReplyDeleteGood thoughts. What is the literal meaning behind the moonless night? Why is this moonless night undesirable or even dangerous?
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"Lament for Pasiphae" is very fitting of Pasiphae's life because a lament in any form is generally an impassioned expression of grief or sadness, and considering Pasiphae didn't have it too hot, what with a cheating husband and a witches curse, it makes sense that a poem about her life would have an almost burning, down trodden, depressed and yet intense mood to it. The reason I say that it has a certain intensity to it is because if you listen to the piece, it's not your average beautiful, sad, french song about a love life gone wrong. The musical phrasing of the piece starts out almost in a fit of rage with the first line, only to quite down to a whisper during "shine warm a little longer". Even during the lulls of this piece though the intensity still pervades through, giving almost a sense of Pasiphae plotting to herself in a hushed whisper. As for the line "dying sun", there are many different interpretations of this line. It could be that Pasiphae is referring to her father who is the God of Sun. Or even herself, also being of the Sun God clan, and her dying soul, tortured by her husbands adulterous behavior and the burden of her unwilling delivery of the Minotaur and forced to stick through it all because of her immortality. In the context of the authors life, being a World War I veteran who was injured on more then one occasion, the image of a dying sun or a days end might have been constantly hanging over his mind. After all, having two near death experiences I bet he lived very much from day to day, just hoping to survive and the image of a dying sun is very powerful in my mind, almost signifying the ultimate loss of life and the following darkness of which most people associate with evil and death. All in all, Lament for Pasiphae is a very powerful poem set to equally extraordinary music and I greatly look forward to the future work we will do on this piece.
ReplyDeleteAlex: I completely agree with your connection with the text and the music itself, the music not only explains the text, but emphasizes and exaggerates the meaning behind Graves' poem. You could also connect the idea of Graves identifying with Pasiphaë's suffering, due to the fact that they both had to live through traumatic experiences, not just saying that the "dying sun" line is possibly a sample of graves' thoughts on his participation in WWI. Do believe that Graves' had a "dying soul", and was put through immense suffering? In which inspired him to not only understand Pasiphaë's struggles, but also admire her strength and desperate hope for the world? i think your analysis opens up these questions about the author's perception on his own work: a metaphor for his own life, or merely just telling a story?
DeleteNice. I appreciate your comments that relate directly to the music. You ask us to view the poem not only through the lens of Graves, his philosophy and like experiences, but also through Lauridsen's eyes (and ears).
DeleteGraves’ seemed to focus a lot on how positive the sun is, and then writes about how faithful and awesome she was. “She” is obviously Pasiphaë in the context, since this is a lament for Pasiphaë, but I think when Graves mentions “she” he could also be referring to the sun, and how it always rises and sets faithfully. Following the whole faithless motif, the article mentions that Pasiphaë’s husband cheated on her, so she went ballistic and cursed him. Also, Graves apparently separated from his wife (as mentioned in the article), so he might be describing the ideal woman in his poem? In response to the question about the night without a moon, I think Graves might be referring to the sun dying, so the moon cant reflect its light, therefore the moon doesn’t shine (do moons shine? I think they kind of glow . . .). My final thought is that Pasiphaë sounds a lot like Persephone, the daughter of Greek goddess of harvest Demeter (and Pasiphaë and Persephone are both Greek daughters of goddess-connection!!!). There’s a Greek myth about how Hades steals Persephone to be his wife, and she eats pomegranate seeds from the underworld so she has to stay there six months a year and be Hades’ wife, and Demeter mourns the loss of her daughter for those six months, which is why we have winter, and nothing grows. When Persephone comes back for six months, Demeter rejoices and we have summer. The “dying sun” could refer to the coming of winter, and Demeter’s happiness waning, while the farmers ask for Demeter to stay happy for a little bit longer and keep the earth green and fertile for them.
ReplyDelete(1) who is this?
Delete(2) Pasiphaë/Persephone - fascinating. So many of the themes in the Persephone story resonate in the Pasiphaë story. Also, all of the Pagan ritual of mid-winter, solstice, explanation for the change of the seasons, etc. An original thought worth developing, for sure.
I think Lament for Pasiphae is not only a poem reflecting Pasiphae's life, but also a poem that echoes Robert Grave's life as well. As mentioned before, laments carry sorrow, grief, and regret. In the article regarding Robert Grave's life it is mentioned how he suffered trauma and witnessed horrors in the war. I think the disturbance he underwent during the war caused him to sympathize with Pasiphae, a very much so somber and unfortunate character. The poem very clearly correlates to Pasiphae’s life—“Dying sun” refers to Pasiphae petering out once she was doomed to the awful curse. “Shine warm a little longer” almost seems like a cry of encouragement towards Pasiphae, I may go out on a limb and say maybe even a cry of encouragement indirectly towards himself. I believe a “dewless and oppressive cloud” may be what is shrouding Pasiphae’s illumination, which can be interpreted both literally and physically. “Night without a moon” symbolizes dark, forlorn, and desolate, and this makes a lot of sense in the context of the poem. Pasiphae was in a place that could metaphysically be described as “without a moon” as she was very lonely and living with a lack of light. Overall I believe “Lament for Pasiphae” tells the story of Pasiphae and maybe tangentially has some connections to the author’s life as well.
ReplyDelete-E.Tan
Emily- i thought your take on the song was enlightening-- i had not thought of it that way at all! Now that you mention it I totally see how Lament For Pasiphae reflected Robert Grave's life through Pasiphae's story. It makes sense that after all he's been through, Pasiphae's tragic story would resonate with him. I also agree with your opinion on the line "night without a moon" symbolizing "dark, forlorn and desolate". My response was similar to yours in that aspect, as i believe darkness symbolizes sorrow and unhappiness. Great Work!
Delete-Emily Royer
Em tan,
DeleteAfter reading your post it made me have a completely different interpretation of the song/poem. I liked how you mentioned that Grave had suffered trauma and horrors in the war, because it really fits in relation to the song and meaning. In both of our posts, we talked about the same phrases, but in yours, you had different ideas which I think I agree with more than my own. I liked how you said "without a moon" meant that she was very lonely, and living with lack of light. The lack of light struck me because I would never associate a moon with a lack of light, but really like that idea! Overall, I think you did a good job and it was interesting to see the similarities and differences between both of our interpretations. :)
Natalie Puschak
The word lament is a verb meaning to mourn or express sorrow.
ReplyDeleteUndoubtedly this is what Pasiphae is doing in Lauridsen’s “Lament For
Pasiphae”. In the myth, Pasiphae is punished for “some offence against
the gods committed by either herself or her husband”. Pasiphae’s
punishment is a curse that compels her to experience “the desire to be
couple with the king’s finest bull”. Pasiphae laments her sorrow
regarding her deplorable situation in the lines “you, sun, and I all
afternoon have labored beneath a dewless and oppressive cloud—a fleece
now gilded with our common grief that this must be a night without a
moon”. She is expressing her sorrow through the words “this must be a
night without a moon” because darkness is a universal symbol of sorrow
and unhappiness. I think the line “ my eye, dazzled with tears, shall
dazzle yours, conjuring you to shine and not to move” is in reference
to the spell Pasiphae casts upon her husband Minos after discovering
his disloyalty. The spell makes him “destroy his lovers” and he is
unable to stop (move) until he is “cured by the Athenian girl
Prokris”. The second part of this poem “faithless she was not: she
was very woman, smiling with dire impartiality” is in regard to her
disloyal and adulterous behavior in the myth. Upon conceiving and
bearing “a hybrid child, the bull-headed Minotauros” any faithfulness
she had to her husband was shattered. It seems that the poem is
centered entirely on the myth of Pasiphae and her story.
-Emily Royer
Hey Emily,
DeleteYou've really dug deep into the myth of Pasiphae and found its various connections woven throughout the piece. I found it interesting how you interpreted the "my eye dazzled with tears" phrase, connecting it to the spell cast by Pasiphae on her husband. I felt that it more directly correlated to the relationship or a conversation between Pasiphae and her father, Helios, who is also the sun god. "My eye dazzled with tears" to me was more a result of her suffering from her predicament, and lamenting to her father to keep things the way they've always been "shine and not to move." Anway, I really like your perspective and connections to the myth throughout. It put an intriguing, unique spin on the poem.
-Hersh :)
Eroy
DeleteI found your take on the poem as being from Pasiphae's perspective to be very interesting.I also found your association of light to happiness and darkness to sorrow intriguing.Before reading your comment, it never occurred to me to see the line "my eyes dazzled with tears shall dazzle yours..." as a spell being cast but in retrosepct it makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the insightful thoughts.
I find that this text heavily relates to the story in the Pasishae (mythology based) link. In the story Pasiphae, the wife of Minos and mother of the Minotaur, is seen as a corrupt wizard like character whom in cursed with the fate of being the mother of a Bull-man. The text highlights Robert Graves relation and interest in Greek mythology as well as puts a violent and often metaphor based spin on his text. I feel the text is a sorrowful and sympathizing song (lament:a passionate expression of grief or sorrow) describing the tousles and tragedies , like many greek stories highlight, that Pasiphae must live through. In the song the lyrics say "Dying sun, shine warm a little longer! My eye, dazzled with tears, shall dazzle yours, Conjuring you to shine and not to move. You, sun, and I all afternoon have labored Beneath a dewless and oppressive cloud-- a fleece now gilded with our common grief That this must be a night without a moon. Dying sun, shine warm a little longer!" this passage especially stuck out at me both as a fan of history, and from a literary stand point. "Dying sun" for example is referencing Paishae as the daughter of the sun god Helios. Perhaps Pasishae's father is dying or perishing, as Graves personifies in the song. Another significant text that i noticed was surrounded by the line "That this must be a night without a moon." Pasiphae is also referenced and a moon-goddess . This line suggests that Pasiphae, with god like powers is controlling or tempering with the moon. Such power only possible though the tales of greek, and roman inspired stories. Another thing i notice is that Helios and Pasiphae are having a conversation. Pasiphae is comparing herself to helios saying "You, sun, and I all afternoon have labored Beneath a dewless and oppressive cloud" Here Pasiphae could be relating to her father, and the misfortune that surrounds their family. In conclusion many symbolic metaphors and examples are brilliantly personified by Robert Graves in Lament for Pasiphae.
ReplyDeleteThis poem has a significant of both personal experience and knowledge of mythology injected into it by the poet Robert Graves. The words begin with the violent image of a “Dying sun”. This is paralleled by the intense and dissonant melodies of the music, and could also represent any of the turbulent times in either the poet or the Goddess’ lives. It is also referencing the relationship of Pasiphae to the sun and the Gods, who have cursed her with a miserable yearning to cheat on her husband with a bull. The next part of that line mellows hugely, and is followed by the music, with less harsh chords and represents a desire for something to keep from ending, whether it be Grave’s relationship with one of his wives or Pasiphae expressing a wish to keep alive her interactions with the bull for just a little bit longer. The first stanza may even be written from the perspective of the bull, referencing his mistress of sorts as the sun, his sadness at their ending relationship shown through his “eye, dazzled with tears”. He is trying to get her to stay for just a little bit longer. Their unfortunate connection has taken place under an “oppressive cloud” due to its adulterous nature. They have been forced into secrecy. The second stanza, on the other hand, seems to be written from the point of view of Pasiphae’s husband or possibly the poet himself. Either could be lamenting the loss of his previously faithful wife to “Spring’s cukoo”, which refers to the men (or beasts) who are tempting their women away from them. The “Spring’s cukoo” may directly refer to the old saying about how ‘Spring turns a man’s fancy to thoughts of love’. Finally, “This must be a night without a moon” is a reference to Mino’s loss of Pasiphae and her love, at least for the moment, or the night.
ReplyDelete-Charlie- I like that you took this interpertation a step further, and actually applied what the song sounded like during the words, instead of just thinking about the meaning. Looking at it this way, I found that i could take new meaning from the chords instead of just the lyrics. I agree with you when you talk about the harsh chords with the dying sun image. I think that Graves wants to really feel this conflict within the characters in this poem not only with our ears, but with our whole bodies. I also like your reference to Springs cuckoo and other possible common phrases that Graves might have been referencing.
Delete-James F. Wheatthin.
Looking through the previous entries, I’ve decided to focus on question four, since a lot of other people have already done a fantastic job on the first few questions.
ReplyDeleteIn reading through Grave’s little cycle, “Mid-Winter Songs,” I noticed quite a lot of overlap between each poem. Throughout the poems, Graves focuses on the changing of seasons, and the image of snow and how the context of snow changes in each poem.
In Lament for Pasiphae, Grave references spring, both literally and figuratively. He uses the word, which is capitalized for emphasis, as a descriptor for the emergence of a new thought in Pasiphae’s world. He also uses spring as a time descriptor for Pasiphae’s change from a woman “sovereign adored by men” to someone who must “resign her being,” just as spring signifies a transition of the seasons. In Intercession in Late October, Grave looks at the other shift in seasons, that warm to cold. Painting a picture of a landscape not yet ravaged by winter, Grave creates imagery to parallel his description of a man with “clean hands and [a] love-submissive heart.” With his words, Grave implies that this man will soon undergo a change, much as the seasons are about to do.
Grave uses snow in a handful of poems in this cycle, but snow has a different context in each usage. In Like Snow, the “snow” appearing in the first line has a connotation of purity and secrecy. Throughout the rest of this poem, snow appears as a contradictory phrase, with Grave saying that it was “warmer than fingers feared” and “friendly” to the ground. By giving the snow such a unique meaning in this poem, Grave creates a sort of symbol for the unknown that hides in this night, and this woman. In She Tells Her Loves While Half Asleep, Grave again uses the image of snow, but it takes on a more threatening connotation. Again, however, it is used contradictorily, for Grave implies that the snow is trying to save the “grass and flowers” from the Earth, while everyone knows that the cold of snow is what kills flora and fauna in the winter. By again giving snow such a role in his poems, Grave surprises the reader and is able to use snow as a figurative language device in his discussion of life, nature, and betrayal.
Izzy-
DeleteI really appreciate that you took the time to read through the rest of the movements and look at the entire piece rather than just the first movement as most of us did. This, I feel, gives more of a scope on the overarching message of the whole poem. It is also interesting because the later movements do not really reference Pasiphae at all (at least by name), so it lets us look at the words in a broader and different light. I wonder if we were to look closely at this whether we could find additional parallels to the poet's life?
Hey Isabel,
DeleteI think that you ability to draw the connections between the cycling nature of the seasons and descriptions of the poems. I think you've really been able to find significant symbolism between what Grave includes in his writing and with the overall message and tone he is trying to convey. I think that also all the alternate meanings of each of the symbols could affect not only how we perceive the stories that he is sharing of the myths and beyond, but also I think that our individual separate interpretations enable us to take whatever we want from the meaning of the piece. More than just pasiphae's story, this poem and especially the entire work enable us as singers and readers to interpret however we fashion.
I personally am happy he didn't try to force the myth into all the movements and think that this "wiggle" room is more conducive to creativity anyhow.
Cool
Félix
Pasiphae was the wife of King Minos in Ancient Greece. Since she was a goddess, she was immortal. Unfortunately for her, she somehow insulted/betrayed her husband. As her punishment, she was forced to want a bull, and bore his child. The child ended up being “the minotaur” which haunted the maze. Unfortunately for King Minos, he was also caught being unfaithful to his wife. As punishment, she cursed him by making him have trouble in bed to say the least. Since she was immortal, he couldn’t merely kill his wife. I guess he shouldn’t have cheated. ☹
ReplyDeleteI think that the poem is really summarizing Pasiphae’s life. First of all, saying “Faithless she was not; she was very woman” is like saying she is loyal and just what a good wife should be like. After more lines of this, the story finally takes a bad turn for Pasiphae. “Until Spring's cuckoo with bedraggled plumes Tempted her pity and her truth betrayed” means that she was intrigued and attracted to “spring’s cuckoo with bedraggled plumes.” My interpretation on the odd language is that spring’s cuckoo could be a type of hat worn by men, and bedraggled plumes sometimes hang down off of them.
“Dying sun” could have something to do with the fact that her father was Helios, the Greek god of the sun. So, maybe this was an outcry to her father for help. The sun is also mentioned a few more times, most likely referring to her daddy. YAY!
~ Abe Laxague (Using my mom's google account)
Abe, I like your idea of how the poem as a whole is summarizing Pasiphae's life. I agree with you on how she is attracted to "spring's cuckoo with bedraggled plumes." and how it could be a type a hat worn by men. I'd never thought of it in that way. It could also literally refer to a bird with bedraggled plumes like a peacock.
DeleteThat is another way to interpret it, which also makes sense. A cuckoo is a type of bird that I sang about in elementary school, and after looking it up, cuckoos do seem to have a sort of "tail," which can be percieved as plumes.
DeleteA lament, according to the New Oxford American Dictionary, is a “passionate expression of deed and sorrow”. Indeed, even if Pasiphae brought upon herself all the trouble by insulting the gods, her story is exclusively filled with sorrow and grief. The first stanza of the poem is written, I think, from the point of view of Pasiphae, and it appears as if she is invoking her father, the sun god helios. “Dying sun” could reference not only the fact that she has been renounced by her godly family, but also the fact that her father has died, or shared her terrible misfortunes in another episode. This idea is further reinforced by the line “You, sun, and I all afternoon have laboured beneath a dewless and oppressive cloud”. Here there is a reference to the secrecy of Pasiphaë’s life (the cloud), and the forceful nature of it (the dewless and oppressive cloud). From another perspective, a “dying sun” causes the moon to lose its shine, or the downfall of Pasiphaë into darkness and misery, or “a night without a moon”. Pasiphaë does not endure this pain without ever using her magical powers, however: I believe that in the line “My eyes, dazzled with tears will dazzle yours” the poet is showing how the grief of Pasiphaë and her rage regarding her husband’s unfaithfulness has caused her to cast a spell on him, causing him to destroy his lovers until he is cured (thus implying that both are desperate over their lost ‘powers’ or freedoms). However, in the end, it is “Spring’s cuckoo” that "betrays her truth". The cuckoo can represent different things: it can either be the emissary of Spring or can symbolize more appropriately, in this case, the bird of Hera, the Greek goddess of Marriage. The cure on the Minotaur worked in the end, and Pasiphaë “resigned her being”, deciding to live in secrecy and despair, causing the night to be moonless. -Marco Antonio
ReplyDeleteMarco, I really liked how you specified on the grief and sorrow portion of this impeccable piece. Your response emulates my thoughts, which are how the poem and the words "dying sun" can relate to misery in ones everyday life. I also liked how you went in depth with your response, and how you regurgitated the story in you own personal way. The influx of images that can mirror ones everyday life became evident to me in your thoughtful response, and really made me ponder the various images other than sadness that this piece is able to portray. All in all, I thoroughly enjoyed you response, and believe that you are spot on with your interpretation of this wonderful composition.
Delete-Brendan Appelman
According to Greek mythology, Pasiphae’s story is a very lamentable tale. Not only was she cursed to bear a half-god/half-bull Minotaur, but also her husband was unfaithful to her. A lament is a deep mourning, so Lament for Pasiphae is presumably a poem mourning for Pasiphae, who was forced to live such a pained life. “Dying sun,” the first line, is probably referencing her father Helios, the sun god. It seems that Graves is pleading for Helios to shine a little longer and make the situation brighter. Also, the reference of “a fleece now gilded with our common grief,” is a reference of Jason and the Golden Fleece, a very well known portion of Greek mythology.
ReplyDeleteThe “Spring’s cuckoo” appears to be a reference to the creature that fathered the Minotaur. The beginning of that stanza says “Faithless she was not: she was very woman,” so it can be assumed that the stanza will focus on the faithfulness of Pasiphae and those that she loves. This line also gives the reader some sympathy for her, for it says that although she was surrounded with men adoring her, she was always faithful. That is, until she was cursed to want to be with a bull, the Spring’s cuckoo.
Another meaning that “dying sun” could take on is of the loss of hope. The sun is typically used in metaphors as a glimmer of hope or happiness. If the sun is dying, it means that hope is slowly diminishing. By the same token, the moon is constantly used in literature as a guiding light. If there were “a night without a moon”, then there would be no guiding light for Pasiphae after everything she endured.
Danny,
DeleteGreat observations! I like you're second idea about the meaning of "dying sun". I had the same interpretation about the loss of hope, however you took it further and found meaning in "a night without a moon". You're comment was very thoughtful about the moon being used as a guiding light, and if it is said that there is a night without a moon, then there isn't light to guide her through her hardships. This was a very great observation! Also, you're connection between "a fleece now gilded with our common grief" and a piece of Greek mythology was very interesting. I definitely didn't notice that! All in all, great job making sense of this poem! :)
-Mer
I actually looked at the poetry as being from the perspective of Pasiphae as if she is lamenting to her father about the failure of her relationship and her general misfortune (she did have a son with a bull…). The first line “dying sun,” is repeated three full times right at the beginning of the piece, the music getting more and more dramatic with each repetition. This seems to suggest that she is almost calling out to the sun god (her father, Helios), begging him show her mercy and reach out to her (“shine warm a little longer”). This theme continues into the next lines about the “dazzling tears.” I think that this line most likely involves her evoking empathy, hoping that her misfortune will resonate with others and work to her advantage.
ReplyDeleteThe next line uses the actual term “sun,” and while this strengthens the view that Pasiphae is speaking to her father the sun god, it could perhaps also lend itself to a different interpretation of the poem. Pasiphae could be speaking to her actual “son,” the Minotaur. His name is Asterios (the starry one), and since the sun is a type of star, the substitution fits nicely.
Also, astronomers say that some of the stars we see up in the sky may have already died days or weeks earlier and their light is only just reaching the naked eye on earth. With this in mind, the mournful, almost desperate tone of the poem could be due to Pasiphae’s clairvoyant belief that her Minotaur son is destined to die (the legend of the Minotaur states that he is eventually killed by Theseus) and she is begging him to “shine” for her while he still can.
Michal, I read your post and realized that the thoughts and interpretations that you addressed were really intriguing and complex. I thought that the “sun” used as both Pasiphae’s father and her “son” Minotaur shows not only mystery and hidden ideas but also what seems to be apparent all throughout this poem: the double meaning. Especially as the winter season is filled with “dewless and oppressive clouds,” the stars are covered, and yet their presence is felt in the tone of the poem as you mentioned, and in the foreshadowing of the Minotaur’s death. Your insight into an element in the poem that seems to be looming though not stated directly is so important, great observations and amazing ideas!
DeleteThis poem greatly relates to the story of Pasiphae, who was the daughter of the sun god Helios. The poet, Robert Graves, is lamenting, or expressing sorrow for Pasiphae, who was cursed and got impregnated by a bull. The way Graves writes is very relevant to mythology. The way he talks about the natural world and personifies the season is very mythological. For example, he says things like “the world waked” and “As Earth stirs in her winter sleep.” This shows that he may be referencing back to the times where there wasn’t much scientific understanding of the world and seasons. One possible meaning of dying sun is that it is the end of her girlhood and innocence. Now that she is impregnated, she is no longer a child and the poet is saying if only it could “shine warm a little longer” meaning if only she could live in innocence for a little more. The quote “My eye, dazzled with tears, shall dazzle yours” is a way of saying that it is a lament and that he is crying for her and can feel her pain. The part about “You, sun, and I all afternoon have labored beneath a dewless and oppressive cloud” may refer to the cloud (probably a metaphor for her impregnation) which covers up and oppresses the sun (her innocence). This was hard to find meaning in, and there are many interpretations…it’s interesting to see other people’s thoughts!
ReplyDelete-Meredith Hiller
Mer,
DeleteI love your connection of the dewless and oppressive cloud quote to a metaphor of her pregnancy! While I was writing my response I spent so long trying to come up with a meaning for it but just couldn't, and your interpretation of it makes complete sense and is really interesting! I also like the way you made the observation that some of the lyrics from each of the poems reference an unconventional way of describing seasons like "the world waked" and "in her winter sleep." Your observations gave me a new understanding of some of the song. Great job!
~Danny
I think the most significant phrase here is "dying sun". Depending on the interpretation of the rest of the Lament, the dying sun could either be Pasiphae herself, or, if Pasiphae is the singer, the dying sun could be her troubled relationship with her husband. This interpretation, of Pasiphae lamenting her own dying relationship, seems the most meaningful to me. She attempts to "dazzle" him with her witchcraft, doing everything she can to keep him faithful to her--"to shine and not to move". She, her husband, and her relationship have labored beneath the oppressive cloud of the gods, whose favor they clearly do not have. The next line, about "our common grief", suggests that the gods are not wholly cruel, though. Though they have punished Pasiphae and her husband, they also lament that "this must be a night without a moon", the couple's lives turning bleak from punishment and witchcraft.
ReplyDeleteThe second stanza treats on how Pasiphae was a victim rather than a villain in this story. "Faithless she was not", unlike her husband. She finally had enough, "her truth betrayed" by her husband as he took more lovers and by the gods as they cursed her to love a bull. She had previously "shone for all", trying her best to do good for the people she interacted with, but finally "resigned her being", giving up the good works. When she cursed her husband to keep him from taking more lovers, she resigned herself to "a night without a moon"--an unhappy relationship and an unclean record.
Considering all of that, I believe the poem is both from Pasiphae's point of view and from that of someone who has sympathy for her. If Pasiphae is viewed as a victim, this poem is really quite emotional.
--Julianna L.
I think your observation about how the poem could be in Pasiphae's point of view is very interesting. Most people assumed the song was being sung to or for Pasiphae, and I think yours was a very intriguing interpretation. I think perhaps "dying sun" could have multiple meanings--of course it could mean Pasiphae's own low spirits (due to her awful situation) but you raised an interesting point that it could also be interpreted as representing the relationship she possesses with her husband. "Dying" is most certainly an accurate adjective to describe her relationship with her unfaithful husband. I really enjoyed your analysis as it covered things I hadn't thought up before. :)
Delete-EmilyT
As others have said, I agree that Lament for Pasiphae is explaining the fall of Pasiphae, the immortal sun goddess, to the mother of the minotaur, and bringer of misfortune to all those connected to her. This is proved by the lines, "She who shone for all resigned her being" saying that Pasiphae the daughter of Helios and Queen, was stripped of her honor and godly status to become the mother of a monster. I also think think the song refers to those connected with Pasiphae as they too, were cursed especially facing romantic issues. This is not necessarily related to this song, but I just wanted to remind everyone of the story that follows the birth of the Minotaur. Daedalus the inventor is imprisoned in his own labyrinth because he gave Pasiphae and Minos' daughter Ariadne a magic string that helped Theseus survive the maze and defeat the minotaur. In order to escape his prison, Daedalus builds wings for him and his son Icarus, gluing them to their bodies so they can fly away. He warns his son not to fly too low or too close to the sky since the sun will melt the glue, but in the excitement of flying and having too much trust in his father's inventions, Icarus soars high into the sky and the sun melts his wings, causing him to fall to his death in the ocean. When I hear this song I am also reminded of Icarus who was another person caught up in the bad luck surrounding Pasiphae, and also perished in the face of the sun.
ReplyDelete-Jonah Fisher
Hey Jojo,
DeleteI like how you connected that line "She who shone for all resigned her being," with her life before her bad experiences, and then tarnished by her encounters with a bull... That is also similar to what I stated, and how "Dying Sun" could mean her fall from high social rank and her god of SUN for father. Also, The light in her relationships with the ones she loved all died out.
To lament is to express grief, and rightly so in the case of Pasiphae. This poem, particularly the second stanza, parallels the legend of Pasiphae through Graves’ references to mythology, as discussed already by several of my peers. The “dying sun” could very well represent Pasiphae and the loss of hope she encounters as she suffers from the curse and sheds light on the adulterous ways of her husband. However, another interpretation of this poem could come from the Pagan meaning of the “dying sun,” in which the dying sun represents the son of God. Perhaps after suffering both physically and psychologically from the war, and going through a divorce, Graves was feeling hopeless and needed a savior, thus channeling this desire through his poetry. On the other hand, the series of poems put together by Lauridsen do undoubtedly seem to represent the changing of the seasons. Reading strictly on the surface, Lament for Pasiphae requests the sun to “shine warm a little longer.” She Tells Her Loves While Half Asleep details the beginning of spring as “Earth…puts out grass and flowers.” Mid-Winter Waking is the poem about spring, the “season of new blossom,” and the last poem is about autumn, as implied by its title Intercession in Late October. One note-worthy mythological reference in the last poem, which is helpful in unpacking the purpose of the lament is the reference to Crone. One aspect of the Triple Goddess, Crone represents the circle of life, specifically destruction, decay and death, and in the case of this particular poem, the death of winter. It may seem like I am going off on a tangent here, but Crone is associated with the waning or new moon, or the darkening end of the moon cycle. Therefore, the “night without a moon” may refer to Crone, the scariest aspect of the Triple Goddess, thereby explaining the powerful dissonance and unusual harmonies that jump out at us in the music, paralleling the fear Graves experienced throughout his life.
ReplyDeleteSylvs,
DeleteI really liked how you interpreted the poem in a new way with dying sun representing the son of God. I thought that was a very interesting take. When you also said that the series of poems together represent the changing of the seasons, I had never thought of looking at them in that way and it really opened my mind! Lastly, the way you actually connected the specific chords and dissonance to the meaning of the text was very clever, and I agree that it does represent fear in Graves life.
-Caroline
My interpretation is that the poem expresses the loss of Pasiphae’s freedom. Her soul is the dying sun as its shine is being tarnished by the suffering of having to leave her husband to wed a bull. As the myth goes, she is laboring to conceive a child and the dewless and oppressive cloud represent the unrelenting darkness of the bull in which she must hide herself inside. “Dewless” connotates an unnatural environment that does not experience the rains and winds of the outside world and “oppressive” relates to the prisonlike confines of her punishment.
ReplyDeleteThe song also represents Pasiphae’s loss of innocence. She had a “heart unmatched” because of how much she loved her husband and a purity only found in the innocent.
But then the Spring’s cuckoo, possibly representing the devilish serpent from the Garden of Eden, tempted her to go against the gods and thereby lose her innocence. After that, she was punished and “resigned her being” to hide within the confines of Daidalos’s bull.
-Ranya Virk
Ranya,
DeleteI really like the biblical allusion to the Garden of Eden. It makes sense that the Spring's cuckoo would represent the serpent, since both these things represent the sin of temptation. Like Eve, Pasiphae gave in to temptation, committed a sin (procreating with the bull), and was punished. I also agree that the song represents the motif of loss of innocence for Pasiphae, since she changed from an innocent girl to a sinful one. Overall good job with making connections between mythology and the song's meaning.
As a number of people have already pointed out, I also think that the speaker of the poem is lamenting for Pasiphae, referring to her adultery with a bull. I would like to twist that I idea a little bit by suggesting that the speaker might be Helios, the Sun God, who is also Pasiphae’s father. With repetition of the word “sun,” I got the sense that Helios is almost talking to the Sun (if that makes any sense at all) about her daughter and how he feels bad for her. “Dying sun” can be referring to the fact that Helios is so sad about his daughter that even the Sun, which is controlled by him, is not fully doing its job. Helios’ eyes are “dazzled with tears,” and his grief is passed on to the Sun. Since Helios and the Sun probably saw every moment of Pasiphae’s story, they share a common grief for her. Here, I would like to point out that if makes perfect sense for Helios to lament for his daughter even though she cheated on her husband for a bull. This outrageous disaster all happened because of Minos, Pasiphae’s husband. Because Minos refused to sacrifice a bull for Poseidon, angry Poseidon put a curse on his wife to fall in love with a bull. It wasn’t Pasiphae’s fault (at least from what I’ve read the myth from). Coming back to Helio’s lament, what kind of father would not be sad if his daughter was cursed and loved a bull because of her husband’s mistake? Helios describes how lovely Pasiphae was in lines, “Faithless she was…very woman.” Now, since she has committed a shameful act, Pasiphae, who sometimes symbolized the moon, will not come out at night. (“this must be a night without a moon”)
ReplyDeleteWhile doing some addition research, I came across a personal note left by Graves discussing his Pasiphae poem. Just thought it was interesting: “... The Lament is for all true women (including my true Muse) who allow themselves to be defeated by patriarchal ways of thought.
I am so sorry my poems are set for analysis: poems are not for analysis. They are addressed to the heart & mind, not the logical brain. No, no Japanese inflitration. ...” (http://manuscripts.co.uk/stock/20438.HTM)
-Christine Chang
DeleteI struggled with the analysis of this poem because I felt that it could be interpreted in many ways, as you can see from the previous comments (almost everyone has a different opinion!)
ReplyDeleteWhen reading about Robert Graves, I was interested in his own influences in poetry (besides Riding) and the article mentioned his father being a Gaelic scholar. I stumbled upon a Celtic idea of the winter solstice (fitting, for Mid-Winter Songs). In Celtic lands, the Winter Solstice was celebrated. As the year’s shortest day and longest night, it was seen that the Sun had triumphed over darkness…the Sun had been born again. And every day after that, the days get a little longer, the light gets a little stronger (which reminded me of the lyrics “shine warm a little longer”)
Connecting this idea to the Greek myth, “Dying sun, shine warm a little longer” could refer to the Minotaur. I did some additional research looking into the story of Pasiphae, and it seems that after the Minotaur was born some priests were planning on killing him, then releasing to the public that she had had a miscarriage. The “shine warm a little longer” may refer to his life, and Pasiphae begging that he would stay with her. The Minotaur would be called “sun” not only because Pasiphae’s father was supposedly Helios, the sun god, but also might be a play on words like son rather than sun, as many others have pointed out in previous comments. And like others have also mentioned, if the minotaur is indeed symbolized by the sun then the line “you, sun, and I all afternoon have labored” could refer to his difficult birth.
Overall, I think the first stanza of Lament for Pasiphae is written from Pasiphae’s point of view, speaking to her newly-born son.
The lyrics of this poem gave me a few thoughts. To me, the phrase “night without a moon” evokes death. Night is the time for sleep, and endless sleep (which I see a moonless night as alluding to) was common classical euphemism for dying. I like Quentin’s idea that “dying sun”represents the coming of winter, but given that Pasiphae may be a daughter of the Helios (the sun), it seems to me that this phrase could be representative of Pasiphae herself. I agree with Jonah and other that the poem is lamentation of Pasiphae’s fall from grace. By the version of the myth that I know, Poseidon has sent a pure white bull to Crete, in the expectation that it will be sacrificed to honor him. To provide some mythological context, some time before the Minotaur’s birth, Zeus, in the form of a snow-white bull, kidnapped the princess Europa, then seduced her and made her the first queen of Crete. From this myth, ancient Crete adopted and venerated bovine imagery and Zeus. Going back to Pasiphae, Poseidon sent a white bull so that the Cretans might worship him too (knowing the Cretans veneration for all things cow). But Pasiphae became so enamored with the bull that she convinced her husband King Minos (son of Europa and Zeus) to spare it. Poseidon, irate, sent the bull on a rampage around Crete and caused Pasiphae to become pregnant with the Minotaur. These two stories provide an interesting contrast centered around the motif of Cretan bull and cow worship. Zeus, in the form of a bull, brought the kingdom of Crete to existence, yet Poseidon’s bull causes trouble for Crete and the Minotaur (half bull, half man) is worse still. It’s interesting that Robert Graves fixates upon Pasiphae and her fall, not mentioning bulls or cows or gods or Minos or Crete at all. Though Pasiphae has done things that at least the gods find displeasing (though she is technically a goddess herself) and so is disgraced, Graves portrays her as a noble, graceful woman placed into circumstances beyond her control.
ReplyDelete-Ben Brown
As many people have already discussed the text’s connection with mythology, I will discuss it more in a general sense. I agree with Izzy that Graves uses nature as a metaphor for human emotion. The warmth and light of the sun gives strength and comfort. It personifies happiness and the protection it gives from greif. It becomes a fight to hold onto one’s well being. When a cloud covers the sun, even temporarily it is “oppressive”. Happiness is fading with the sun and one must beg it to “shine warm a little longer!” However, “darkness” or depression soon overtakes it and it will soon be dark and hence a “night without a moon. ” The speaker later is fully immersed in depression and when they emerge from hibernation they remark that there is “Too much light”. The darkness is a symbol of depression. Once a person is in the dark for long enough, their eyes adjust. Once one is depressed, happiness becomes unthinkable. All of the pieces are based around Winter clearly because many find winter to be the most difficult season. There is little sunlight and warmth and the sun seems distant and obscured.
ReplyDeleteGosh, I just realized that is the most depressing comment ever. Too late to change it now...
-Rachel Swack
Rachel,
DeleteI like your interpretation of the darkness and the cloud as depression. I think the fact that people's eyes adjust to the dark and that happiness becomes too bright after depression is a very interesting idea. I think it could be interesting to connect the idea of depression with the mythology of this poem. For example, the light could symbolize free will. This comment was depressing but not the most depressing comment ever, don't worry.
~Natalie T.
At this point in the conversation it's tough to add something that hasn't already been said, but I'll try by addressing the motif of the sky that is present throughout the poem. As has already been mentioned, Pasiphae was one of the earliest representations of the moon goddess and her father, Helios, was the god of the sun. Graves uses a plethora of literary devices to highlight Pasiphae's sufferings. The opening line, "Dying sun" puts an image in our head of something we imagine to be impossible, the death of the sun. The sky is something that humans view as infinite, and the sun is something that is always regarded to us as a constant, so the word "dying" invokes a sense of discomfort to say the least. The next instance of "sky imagery" in the poem is the line that reads "you sun and I have labored beneath a dewless and oppressive cloud." Again, Graves has taken something that is often viewed as pleasant, a white puffy cloud, stripped it of its fluffiness (dewless) and utilized an ominous and unsettling adjective, oppressive cloud, to make the reader uncomfortable. Equally unsettling is the concept of a "night without a moon," something that is also viewed as a constant each night. In general, Graves uses an interesting array of seemingly oxymoronic imagery to invoke a sense of unease in the reader. In the musical adaptation of the poem, this sense of unease is manifested in unsettling, unresolved chords and complex rhythms and melodies.
ReplyDeleteIn the poem Lament for Pasiphaë, I think that the dying sun represents Pasiphae's hope. When this text was happening, Pasiphae had already slept with the bull, thus giving birth to the minotaur. I think that she is praying to the sun god, Helios, to let her hold onto her hope, the "dying sun", just a little longer. She is pleading for it to "shine warm". I think that when she says, "my eye, dazzled with tears, shall dazzle yours," she is talking to Helios, telling him that he will be so dazzled with her grief that he will grant her a little while longer to hold onto her rapidly disappearing hope. I think that the phrase night without a moon is the ultimate symbol of no hope. For example, when discussing the fleece, which represents the minotaur, and that Helios and Pasiphae are both ashamed of, the moonless night shows how both of their hope is disappearing rapidly. Also, in the second paragraph, it discusses Pasiphae's history, and how she was a perfect woman, until she had an affair with "Spring's Cuckoo". Then she resigned her being, which doesn't sound very good, and then there is again a night without a moon, because she has finally lost all hope due to her actions. I think this is a really interesting poem, and I'm interested in the different interpretations that my classmates have had.
ReplyDelete-Jamie Wheaton
As the title indicates, this poem is essentially a lament for Pasiphae, the daughter of the sun-god Helios in Greek mythology. A lament is an expression of mourning, in the sense that one is empathizing with someone facing extreme hardships or challenges. Graves titles the poem “Lament for Pasiphae,” where the reader of the poem is the one empathizing with Pasiphae. Why? Well Pasiphae, although immortal, was cursed by the gods and was consequentially forced to “be coupled with the king's finest bull.” She then proceeded to bear a child that became known as the Minotaur, a man with the head of a bull. Furthermore, her (human) husband, King Minos of Crete, proved unfaithful, and as a result, Pasiphae used some of her powers to, well, provide him with slight difficulties in bed. Once the general plotline is understood, the text becomes less nebulous, and in fact it’s actually quite interesting. Throughout the poem, it is almost as if Pasiphae is singing to her father, the sun god. She is lamenting that, because it is winter (Mid-winter songs), the sun is shining less each day, hence the phrase, “Dying sun.” Pasiphae continues her lament by imploring the sun (her father) to “shine warm a little longer.” She doesn’t want her father to leave so soon each day, as he provides her with some ‘warmth’ and reassurance. Moving on. “My eye, dazzled with tears, shall dazzle yours, Conjuring you to shine and not to move.” This line truly captures Pasiphae begging her father to shine powerfully all day, and not follow his daily path of rising and setting. Pasiphae’s eyes are “dazzled with tears” from her suffering, and she feels that this will inspire empathy in her father to “shine and not to move.” She also wants her father to stay in the sky so that she, the Moon, will not have to face the world every night in her depressed state. The second verse of the poem is the part where the reader begins to really empathize with Pasiphae, describing her as “very woman, Smiling with dire impartiality.” Pasiphae’s innocence prior to her curse causes us to connect even more with her. Lines four and five of the second verse portray her fall from dignity into the throes of suffering and depression, mourning her most saddening predicament.
ReplyDeleteHi Hersh,
DeleteI thought this song was entirely in third person, but now I realize that some parts can actually be interpreted in first person, from the perspective of Pasiphae herself. I like what you said about the song being about Pasiphae singing to her father to "shine a little bit longer." In a literal sense, its about not having the day end, the sun go down, and the winter to come, but I guess metaphorically its talking about Pasiphae not wanting the great warmth and brightness of her childhood to end. She wants her father to stay where he is; she does not want to go into the unsheltered, cold world yet. If interpreted in this way, this song is about lamenting the end of the golden age, the loss of innocence, and the difficulties of growing up.
Thanks for writing your thoughts,
Kelly Zhang
Hersh,
DeleteAlthough I wrote my post before reading yours, while I was scrolling through random ones after posting, I realized we had a lot of the same ideas while thinking about the relationship between the legend and the poem. I loved how you took the text and applied it to the story, giving each line an actual part in said story and thus giving it meaning. It helped give emotion to the seemingly cryptic words of the Lament for Pasiphaë. You pretty much addressed each of the questions given at the top, the question of lamenting and "mid-winter songs," along with taking apart the text, which gave your post even more background and information. Great job!
~Maya
Hersh, I really liked your idea of the song being about Pasiphae mourning her own suffering and calling to her father. The weird chords and accidentals in the song also support your idea, and although the song can be loud, there is definitely something sad and tragic about it.
DeleteImmediately when considering the legend of Pasiphaë, the first phrase and first sentence of the article given seem to connect. "Pasiphaë is the immortal daughter of the sun-god..." and "Dying sun," are the first phrases of both, and it does not seem coincidental that Graves chose to begin his poem as such. Perhaps Graves means to say that Pasiphaë is wishing for the protection or "sun-shine" from her father, the sun-god Helios, to continue while she is cursed by the gods to love a bull. Her "dazzling" (magical?) tears hoping to convince (again, force using her magic?) to "dazzle [his]." She most likely hopes the combination of her sorrow and magic will cause him to continue shining and never leave her. Pasiphaë most likely feels as though her punishment is unfair, and that she and her father work hard under an oppressive regime run by the sky god Zeus (possibly what she was referring to in "oppressive cloud").
ReplyDeleteThe second phrase that leaps out to me is "that this must be a night without a moon," which is strangely odd because Pasiphaë is actually the moon-goddess (albeit one of many). She says, "She who shone for all resigned her being, and this must be a night without a moon." The fact that she says this "must be a night without a moon," possibly alludes to suicidal thoughts of her needing to get away from her curse, and stating explicitly that she is "resign[ing]" from her post as moon-goddess.
It's incredible how closely the poem follows the original myth. And again, this is just my take on what the words could possibly mean, I made a lot of assumptions and I assume that they are not completely correct.
-Maya Strod
When I look at this poem, It seems to appear to me as a cry of pity, or a cry in grief or pain. This is exactly what the poem is trying to convey since the definition of lament is a passionate expression of grief. When I read this, I imagine someone who is pleading her last bit of freedom and peace to be held for a little longer. "Dying Sun" seems to refer to a form of light or happiness that the singer wants to hold on to and elongate for a much bigger period of time. I could see this as being a song of Pasiphaë because it seems to go along with what she struggles with after the incident, and how she tells the story of losing the "sun" or in the myth, the ability to make love like a regular human being. Finally, "a night without a moon" may refer to the end of her normal life as she knows it. Since she is begging the sun to stay up longer, the night isn't going to be the normal, beautiful night with the moon anymore. Instead, its going to pitch black, and void of all light or any happiness that would come through to her.
ReplyDeleteIt’s interesting how my initial interpretation of the piece, solely from in-class consideration and rehearsal, has changed into something almost entirely different. At first, I took this song to be a work of insistent and dramatic passion (Beginning with “Dying sun” in fortissimo? Really?), a proclamation of anger, or perhaps love, as what happens with most mythological passed-texts. But upon research and deeper consideration, I now view this as quieter, more thoughtful and tragic music despite the initial dynamic, layered with allusion and symbolism. Dripping with it, really.
ReplyDeleteLet me examine the cycle as a whole first, because I think it really lends itself to the meaning of Lament (as the entire work without one other movement would be lost). The beginning opens with Pasiphae’s introduction, her story told succinctly, almost as if it were context. Then it goes on to Like Snow, a sorrow, tired, resigned movement. The most personal movement is the third, She Tells Her Love While Half Asleep, then slowly grows more detached and “full circle” with Mid Winter-Waking and Intercession in Late October, completing the seasons. But sticking with Lament for now…
Pasiphae, the sun god Helios’s daughter is dying. Literally? Maybe. Figuratively? Definitely. The initial “dying sun” is the lament, meant to show how tragic Pasiphae’s story is, because in essence she is the sun, or at least his heir, his flesh and blood. I really liked Rory’s point about her innocence dying, as that fits with her myth well; lost in a whirlwind of infidelity (her’s with the bull, thus spawning the Minotaur, and her husband’s affairs too) destroys what morality she has. She is the embodiment of lust and feminine sexuality exploited to the point of bestiality, dehumanizing her. Graves calls upon her to return, to revert back to a more natural, human state. He calls for love to return, to “shine warm a little longer”. Graves himself has experienced loss of innocence and morality through war and also his Riding’s abandonment for another man. Now, I really think that with these first two lines Lauridsen does an excellent job of text painting, demonstrating both the tragedy of Pasiphae and Graves’s; the bold introduction is shown as a catharsis of pent up emotion, the release of whatever Pasiphae and Graves have lost. And immediately proceeding, “shine warm a little longer,” is a soft and gentle call, beckoning to the fleeting goodness. That really stuck me once I thought about it.
I don’t want to be extremely repetitive because my thoughts don’t differ too much from my peers who have brought up many, many excellent points (moonless nights likened to death and depression, dazzling eyes meant to evoke sympathy, etc). But I do want to touch on the cuckoo as my last point because I don’t think it was mentioned much. After looking into it I found that the cuckoo most often represents a woman who has lost something, or has experienced deep misery (in Greek mythology, Hera is raped by Zeus, who had previously disguised himself as a cuckoo to get close to her). One could argue that Pasiphae was mated with the bull against her own will, since the desire was instilled in her by a higher being. Moreover, the cuckoo is also the messenger of Spring, alluding to the natural imagery of the entire work, and its transitions from season to season. Finally, the point that I found particularly interesting, is that cuckoos lay their eggs in nests that are not their own, which reminds me of Pasiphae baring the bulls child, a species not her own. As a result, cuckoos are avoided, scorned, even called whores, attributing to Pasiphae’s lost innocence. And now, like the piece, I have come full circle.
I think Aldila's comment is very insightful and well-written. She brings up some excellent, original points especially connecting Pasiphae's life to Graves's and the symbolism of the cuckoo. I agree with her interpretation that Graves's loss of innocence and morality during the war that he lived through influenced his Pasiphae's loss of innocence and infidelity as she must suffer through bearing the child of a savage bull which she cheated on her beloved husband to conceive. Therefore, "shine warm a little longer" represents a call to morality and goodness which is being repressed by the depressing darkness of the "night without a moon" (in Graves's case the war, and in Pasiphae's case having a bull-child). I also found interesting Aldila's interpretation of the cuckoo. Her research showed that the cuckoo represents a woman who has experienced extreme sadness (just as Pasiphae must leave her husband to be impregnated by a bull) but also that the cuckoos lay their eggs in nests that are not their own. I think this is a very compelling point to bring up as to why Pasiphae is compared to a cuckoo because her offspring is half-bull, representing the foreign nest she must have her offspring. The foreign nest could also possibly be referring her having to leave her home and live in an unfamiliar territory, spiritually and physically. -Ranya
DeleteSo I think that basically everyone has covered all the questions provided so I'm gonna take a little different spin so that I don't end up regurgitating exactly the same information...
ReplyDeleteI think that the helplessness that is emphasized in the first stanza strongly reflects the helplessness that Pasiphae must have felt (except it wasn't real so...) when she had the curse placed upon her. I think that her "labouring beneath a dewless and oppressive cloud" could be reference to her dedication to her husband but how she never really found happiness. Not only that she didn't find happiness, but clearly he did not either as he was sleeping around with other women. Despite their efforts, it all. Went. Wrong.
I think that there is also some serious parallels with nature and the emotions because it talks about how "conjuring you to smile but not to move", which seems similar to just feigning interest and half heartedly feeling emotion. The sun, which I consider to be the rawest of emotions and entities in the universe, is even hidden behind this opressive cloud that is blocking them too. Again, this stupid cloud is also blocking the purity of the moon and the respite of night that should have come.
Now after this terrible day of hot labor and realizing that even the best of efforts have not sufficed (marriage is failing), there is no solace in finding the moon looking down above.
Also as a brief response to the Mid Winter Songs as a whole, the transitions through the seasons could also be larger mirrors of just transitioning from day to night and how the Mid-Winter songs do not seem go give any sense of relaxation and calm, but rather more discomfort and uncertainty.
Many have acknowledged that Pasiphae is the offspring of Helios, the mighty sun god. No one has mentioned her mother – Perseis, “the destroyer”. The result of this unlikely combination is a girl who begins her life shining like the sun, but slowly self-destructs. Robert Graves beautifully recreates Pasiphae’s story in his poem, using the “dying sun” as a metaphor for Pasiphae herself. Pasiphae used to shine like the sun with happiness, purity, and innocence. Her shine now fades as she descends to the dark sides of lust and revenge.
ReplyDeleteThe first sin that pushes her towards the dark side is her lust for the bull, forced on her as a punishment for her husband’s faults. She is “smiling” and “sovereign” (powerful) “until Spring’s cuckoo…[tempts] her pity and her truth [is] betrayed.” Pasiphae’s true self was glowing and pure until Spring, the season of life, tempted her to reproduce with the bull. With this sin, her light began to fizzle.
“My eye, dazzled with tears, shall dazzle yours”, displays her second sin – her drive for revenge. Pasiphae’s eyes are filled with tears since she is hurt by her husband’s unfaithfulness. In return, she poisons her husband’s ejaculate, hurting him and thus dazzling his eyes with tears as well. The moment someone plots revenge, no matter how pure they were before, they become just as evil and immoral as those whom they despise. Pasiphae has truly turned to the dark side.
Pasiphae is described as “beneath a dewless and oppressive cloud”. Clouds usually cover the sun. Pasiphae’s light of purity dies as it is covered by this dark cloud of lust and revenge. As her final bits of light fade away, the narrator grieves that “she who shone for all resigned her being, and this must be a night without a moon”. Her light no longer exists to guide others in the darkness. She is no longer fit for power.
Pasiphae started as a good girl but slowly turned dark. This leads me to the time-honored question of whether humans are inherently evil. Was the darkness inside of her the whole time, waiting to come out, or was it forced upon her by these tragic experiences? Are modern-day criminals born with an evil tendency, or does their environment drive them to break the law? I should probably stop. I’m really drifting from the topic. The end.
Nadine, I just wanted to say that I really appreciate your reference to Pasiphae's mother, Perseis. I think you're the only one to have brought it up, and I think it's a really important aspect that contributes to an even deeper meaning to the song. Upon reflection and further research, Perseis is definitely overlooked- it takes two to procreate, and I think people put more emphasis on Helios's importance because it is obvious (Sun god, dying sun). But Perseis, "the destroyer" as you mentioned, contributes to Pasiphae's tragedy as much as her father. In a way, it almost foreshadows her life, destined to endure a life of destruction. Her father represents the warmth and innocence that she had previously possessed, and her mother represents the darkness and doom that she would eventually face, thus completing the cycle from innocence to its loss. I definitely agree with your other points as well; they make sense in the song's context. Overall, very insightful, innovate, and thought-provoking.
DeleteAldila
First of all, let’s look at the mythology: Pasiphaë is pretty messed up.
ReplyDeleteHer origin has already been repeated, but she’s the child of Helios, the sun god, along with her siblings The Charites, Phaëton, Aeëtes, Circe, and the Heliadae (and the Heliades). She then grew up, and had a somewhat normal teenage years (by greek standings...), then married King Minos, and had a... liaison with a mechanical bull, build for her by Deadalus. This all happens because she needs to... eh, “be with” a bull, part of the outcome of a curse from Aphrodite. We already covered most of this, I think. One thing that doesn’t come from the myth, though, is the meaning the poet gave for the entire piece. A quick Google search reveals a ton more information one can gather from just the poet’s page. The former solicitor of the poet describes it as ”Really, however, the poems are about love, sex, and death. ‘Lament for Pasiphaë’ refers to the daughter of Helios, the sun Titan, who committed adultery with a bull. The poet, however, pleads for her as ‘beyond good and evil’ – a natural force. The music begins with bright stabs from the strings to the words ‘Dying sun, shine warm a little longer.’ ‘Like Snow’ keeps the image of woman as life force, as does the quietly beautiful ‘She tells her love while half asleep,’ with its lovely refrain, ‘Despite the snow, / Despite the falling snow.’” The entire poem’s cycle is a huge parallel to the life that Graves lead at the time: so many women who all had something special, but either left him, or fizzled. Sad, really.
A lament is "A passionate expression of grief." (Dictionary.com) meaning that this song is an expression of grief for the moon-goddess, Pasiphae. Pasiphae's story was and strange and disturbing one. After being cursed to fall in love with a bull, I can't imagine the stress and anxiety that it must have brought her. Having a song that expresses grief for her, is not an understatement. The song itself, describes Pasiphae and her suffering. All of Graves' language references Greek Mythology. The Dying Sun could be a reference to Pasiphae, the start of winter or many of the events in Graves' life. A night without a moon could easily mean a world without Pasiphae, the MOON goddess. The spring's cuckoo, could be considered the Queen Minos, who helped her through her hard times.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the reference to "Spring's cuckoo"?
The way that I think about this song is pretty much about Pasiphae, who was Helios' daughter, and her hardships. It seems to me that the "dying sun", which is repeated pretty much throughout the whole song, makes me think of the coming of something bad. (elegantly put, right?) But seriously, it seems to be about how the light that people live in, the happiness which they can possess, is characterized by the sun, which seems to be dying, or going away. Without all of the light, the happiness, in people's lives, there is only suffering, and hard times. Night will come, just as well as all the depressing hardships they will endure. The whole idea of "shine warm a little longer" is definitely a plea for an extension of the happiness, and hope that maybe the sun will stay out, and the night will stay away. The part about "my eye dazzled with tears shall dazzle yours" is about how one person's misery soon becomes another's. The misery and sadness may start with one person, but it soon spreads to nearly everyone else. The thought of a night without a moon seems to give the same idea, that when the night comes, there won't even be the subtle comforts of a moon, to give the people some light. It's a really sad song, with really sad themes. And that's it, really.
ReplyDelete-Will Lockwood
Will-
DeleteI really like your interpretation as the sun and moon and night as an extended metaphor for not only light and dark, but for happiness and misery as well. I think that you bring up a good point when you talk about the line "my eye dazzled with tears shall dazzle yours," saying that misery can spread to everyone they touch or meet. That idea definitely is present in Pasiphae's story (as well as that her husband) because they bring harm to those they meet (or have relationships with). I also enjoyed your interpretation of the final lines about the loss of the moon, and how that leaves a very dark tone in the reader's mind. The poet's use of this phrase definitely brings about the idea of darkness with light, or hope, and the impossibility of ever finding hope (or light!) again in such a dark and miserable night.
At first I thought that the “sun” in “dying sun” was referring to Helios, Pasiphae’s father, but that doesn’t really make sense because he is immortal, as most characters in Greek mythology are. This leads me to believe that the “dying sun” that occurs a lot in the song simply refers to the celestial object that provides us with plentiful energy. However, describing the sun as “dying” contributes to the mood: we consider the sun such a beneficial thing, and now that it is described as “dying” makes us unhappy. Perhaps another take on the “dying sun” is that the sun is analogous to Pasiphae, and how her life was great, but then her punishment make her life a lot weirder and bizarre (definitely in a bad way). Everyone liked her because she was queen, but the bestiality turned everyone off, and now they want the old queen back (“shine warm a little longer”). Now this is just a single phrase being analyzed--one could analyze these poems as much as they wanted to, but I think that what Robert Graves wanted to express was the story of Pasiphae in a poetic manner, mostly showing how terrible her life was (but at least she got revenge on her husband in an even more weird and bizarre manner!).
ReplyDelete-Alex Sekula
Alex,
DeleteYour opinion of the role of "dying sun" was extremely insightful and, now that I think about it, something that I agree with more. I think many of those that have posted had gone with the idea of Helios as the dying sun, but I don't think it is because besides the fact that he is a god, and therefore immortal, nothing bad is happening to him in the poem. I completely agree that we can make several speculations about what the poem means, but in the end, Graves didn't just write a poem, but he told a very specific story. Great thoughts!
Sabrina Sarmiento
The word lament means to express grief. So obviously this song is an expression of grief towards Pasiphae. Pasiphae was the daughter of the sun god Helios. The most important line of the song is "dying sun". As said by others, this could mean a loss of hope or happiness. The part of "shine warm a little longer" could also be an appeal to her father for an extension of sunlight or happiness. The part of "eye dazzled with tears" probably refers to her anger towards her husband, Minos. Also, the part of "night without a moon" might refer to Pasiphae having to leave or being occupied elsewhere (posing husband). This is because she is the moon godess.
ReplyDeleteWhat I find that is great about the poem is the repetition of "dying sun, shine warm a little longer" , making it the main focus of the lament. The narrator (Pasiphaë) is searching for that hole in the cloud, which would let out a little light to make her horribly destitute day a little brighter. She complains of her life: "You sun and I all afternoon have laboured/beneath a dewless and oppressive cloud", but she is not using the sun as a literal term. The poet uses "sun" metaphorically to represent her lamentable soul and her peers watching her, suffering with Pasiphaë for the horrible deed she has done. The "sun" (Pasiphaë's community) "shuns" her, causing Pasiphaë to keep begging for the sun to "shine warm a little longer".
ReplyDeleteAnother repetition I noticed was " that this must be a night without a moon". Not only do I believe that this line refers to her lament for her sorrowful deed, but I also think that she blames the world for not allowing her to have a source of hope. The moon, the only natural and true source of light in a dark, night sky, symbolizes the beauty and power of hope in a terrible situation. But if there is a night without a moon, nothing can truly be seen, understood, or helped because there isn't an source of hope or a way out of the seemingly endless night. I think the clashing parts in the song during each time we sing "and this must be a night without a moon" really emphasize this metaphor of lack of that usually-present idea of hope. The lack of harmony and weird chords accentuate the idea of an unusual life without a source of light, whether it be moon or hope.
I also believe that this poem just utilizes the familiar story of Pasiphaë to express a common human feeling: desparity. Clearly, Pasiphaë is distraught about her sinful desires and her kingdom's reaction to them, but everyone in the history of humanity has felt like this. We've all believed, or will believe at some point in our lives, that our world is crashing down on us, and all we need is just a glimmer of light to guide us out of the seemingly vast darkness of living hell. Whether we got in huge trouble with authority, failed a class, or didn't make the team, something has happened that not only destroyed our confidence in what the world has to offer, but confidence in ourselves, making this poem not only mythical, but close to reality.
-Alison Cameron
Alison,
DeleteYour response shows the importance of the poem not only in the literary sense, but in the sense that it conveys important messages for us as human beings. I think in order to sing the song with the emotion that Lauridsen intended, we need to utilize the pathos that Graves incorporated into his poem that you mentioned, and we need to realize how the poem applies to our own lives. Thanks for the insight!
Sabrina Sarmiento
I agree with a lot of other posts, there definitely seems to be a big connection between the poem and the story of pasiphae and her troubles. I just want to touch on the "dying sun" bit. Many people have said that it could be referring to pasiphaes father. Alex brought up the point that it can't be her father because he is immortal. I don't think that is true. We're talking about a poem here. If only they were actually that literal. It could be referring to any number of things. It could be her relationship with her father, it could also be her asking him for help. Many of these points have already been brought up but that just proves that it could be her talking about her father. On the other hand, that could be completely wrong and have nothing to do with her father. It could just be about her losing hope and how everything seems to be going dark for her. Maybe she was feeling rather apocalyptic and she thought the sun would implode. I don't know but either way, considering the repetition and the intensity of those first three lines, it feels like they should have some o f the greatest emotion in the piece. That is not to say that the piece as a whole should not be sung with conviction but those first few lines just seem so powerful to me and I think it should have a big impression.
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree with the idea that the poem is not at all literal. Personally, I believe that the "dying sun," while it is her father, does not necessarily represent him literally dying. I feel as if it's a reference to her father slowly fading away from her life as her protector. So, in a sense, we sort of have a similar idea: the dying sun probably/may have to do with something in her life fading away or being taken away from her. I also agree with your statement claiming that the first few lines of the poem should be sung with great conviction; in order to deliver the amount of impact that these lines call for to the audience, they have to be sung with a great amount of intensity and commitment.
DeleteLike many others have stated, to lament is to feel or express sorrow or regret for, or to mourn for or over. One could lament for something that they once had, and now no longer have. To connect the title of this poem to it's meaning, it's important to understand the background information of the piece. Pasiphë is the moon, daughter of Helios, the sun god Titan, who committed adultery with a bull. She has lost her status and reputation in her society as the important goddess-daughter of the sun, and is now used to represent evil and "unflattering" in texts such as "Ars Amatoria". It is possible that this loss of honor and rank is what is being mourned in the poem. The poem starts with "Dying sun,shine warm a little longer," which I believe alludes to Pasiphae's downfall in society after her bull incidents. In the second stanza the poem is directly talking about the temptation and betrayal that brought Pasiphae into decadence, and even says "this must be a night without a moon," referring to Pasiphae who is the moon. Another interesting phrase is "Spring's cuckoo", which 'Tempted her pity and her truth betrayed.". This means that spring's cuckoo is what persuaded her to commit adultery with the bull, even when she was "adored of men". Since spring is a time of awakening and new beginnings, I think that Spring's cuckoo means a new state of mind, maybe caused by puberty. Cuckoo birds are noted for their characteristic call and its brood parasitism, but I'm not sure how that could relate to this meaning.
ReplyDeleteThe poem could also refer to the life of Robert Grave. When he went served in World War 1, he was exposed to many deaths and dangerous situations, and in a specific case was severely wounded and evacuated to a hospital. During this injury Graves was declared dead for a few hours before people realized their mistake. "Dying sun, shine warm a little longer" could also refer to himself literally dying, and that the light that shines in him should continue to shine and keep him alive. This theory is also supported in the line "You, sun, and I all afternoon have laboured
Beneath a dewless and oppressive cloud", where labouring all afternoon could signify serving in the war, and the oppressive cloud could be his father (his oppressive father is the suspected reason he left for war). Whether the poem refers to Pasiphae's life or Graves' life or both, both have very interesting and in depth stories and lives which add a lot of meaning to this text.
I appreciate that you had 2 different takes on the text-- many people compared the lyrics to solely Pasiphae and her life, but its an interesting perspective to see how phrases like "dying sun, shine warm a little longer.." compare to Robert Graves life himself. I agree/like your idea that the phrase "shine warm a little longer" refers to Graves almost-death--that the sun represents his health/living and the "dying sun" represents his death. I agree that the text is about both Pasiphae AND Grave's life.
DeleteLibby
Graves seemed to focus a lot on how positive the sun is, and then writes about how faithful and awesome she was. “She” is obviously Pasiphaë in the context, since this is a lament for Pasiphaë, but I think when Graves mentions “she” he could also be referring to the sun, and how it always rises and sets faithfully. Following the whole faithless motif, the article mentions that Pasiphaë’s husband cheated on her, so she went ballistic and cursed him. Also, Graves apparently separated from his wife (as mentioned in the article), so he might be describing the ideal woman in his poem? In response to the question about the night without a moon, I think Graves might be referring to the sun dying, so the moon cant reflect its light, therefore the moon doesn’t shine (do moons shine? I think they kind of glow . . .). My final thought is that Pasiphaë sounds a lot like Persephone, the daughter of Greek goddess of harvest Demeter (and Pasiphaë and Persephone are both Greek daughters of goddess-connection!!!). There’s a Greek myth about how Hades steals Persephone to be his wife, and she eats pomegranate seeds from the underworld so she has to stay there six months a year and be Hades’ wife, and Demeter mourns the loss of her daughter for those six months, which is why we have winter, and nothing grows. When Persephone comes back for six months, Demeter rejoices and we have summer. The “dying sun” could refer to the coming of winter, and Demeter’s happiness waning, while the farmers ask for Demeter to stay happy for a little bit longer and keep the earth green and fertile for them. The melody of the song also reflects this. Whenever we sing “dying sun,” it sounds pretty ugly because all the notes are clashing. I think making the dying sun sound gross is Graves’ way of reflecting the unhappiness of the farmers as winter comes and it becomes more difficult to survive without a constant source of food from the crops. However, whenever we sing about spring, or laboring (as in farming?), the music becomes prettier and more organized, as if we are rejoicing in springtime. Also, farmers harvest in the fall, at night when there is a full moon, so if there is a night without a moon the farmers cant harvest and get more food. And as I said earlier, if the sun is dying, there’s no moon to glow anyway because it’s not reflecting the light of the sun.
ReplyDeleteSara Mael
One thing that is repeated many times in the poem is "dying sun, shine warm a little longer". This could be a reference to many things. First, it could be a reference to her innocence and control over her life. According to the legend of Pasiphae, she was cursed by Poseidon to lust for the bull. This is a thing that she really could not control. I think that the first stanza refers to her struggle against her lust for the bull. When the poem says "conjuring you to shine and not to move", it could refer to her wish to keep herself herself and keep her self-control shining unmovingly. The "dewless and oppressive cloud" refers to Poseidon's curse, which oppresses her and separates her from her sun of self control like a cloud separates her from the sun. When she refers to the night without a moon, she is referring to the night that is coming without even the bit of sun that lights up the moon to keep her sane.
ReplyDeleteThe second stanza refers to her after/during her deed of bestiality with the bull. It begins by defending her. She is "very woman", the poem says and not "faithless". When it says "then she who shone for all resigned her being", it refers to the sun of herself inside, that dies. While in the first stanza, it says "that this must be a night without a moon", in the second it says "and this must be a night without a moon". The use of that instead of and refers to speculation in the first stanza, and the use of and in the second stanza refers to the finality of the act. It WILL be a night without a moon, not just MAY be.
Of course, the use of the sun as imagery for herself is clearly a reference to her father, the sun god Helios, who was somewhat dying in Ancient Greek culture as his traditional duties became more and more associated with Apollo. So the use of a "dying sun" may be referring not only to her loss of self control, but also the decreasing role of her father.
~Natalie T.
Before doing any research. I took a crack at trying to form my own interpretation of the poems within "Winter Songs."
ReplyDeleteIn "Lament for Pasiphae", the author describes a faithful woman "adored of men", meaning that she was loved by all. However, eventually the reader finds out that Pasiphae was tempted away from the author. At this point, we can assume that the author is "lamenting" the loss of Pasiphae, his love. His call to the "dying sun" to "shine warm a little longer" indicates his desire to hold on to her. Also, his mention of "a night without a moon" represents his loss of love, clearly causing him agony.
After research I found that Pasiphae was an early Kretan goddess of the moon, who was cursed to become unfaithful in her marriage, causing her to fall in love with the king's finest bull. Now knowing that Pasiphae is the goddess of the moon, when the author writes "this must be a night without a moon," he is literally saying that Pasiphae is gone from him, causing the night to be void of light. Therefore, in his call to the "dying sun," he is asking for the sun to stay because the night will be so dark, and cold.
While researching , much of the meaning of this song for me came from the myth from which this work is derived. A lot can be told about the meaning of this song by looking deeper within the title itself. Graves titles this work “Lament for Pasiphae.” What does this mean? A lament is an expression of sadness, mourning; a passionate expression of grief. In Greek mythology, Pasiphe is a daughter of Helious. According to ancient Greek texts, Pasiphae was married to King Minos of Crete. While married to Minos, she received a curse from Posiden which caused her to forever experience the yearn for a certain bull, represented in the text by “ dazzling tears.” I interpreted this to represent the illusion and deception that Pasiphae is experiencing. Pasiphae was considered to be the emblem of bestiality and shame because of her lust for a creature such as a bull. This unfortunate turn of events for Pasiphae could be represented in the song with the lines “that this must be a night without a moon.”
ReplyDeleteMr. Murphy, I feel as if you have it hit it spot on. When I first looked at this song, and the lyrics, I thought of sadness. Lament is such a strong word to me, and it is only used to show deep, deep anguish and depression for a death of someone. For Pasiphae, the way he coped with this, was by writing music. Again, the "dazzling tears" that you mention is a way for him to deal with the grief. He mentions the "dewless and oppressive cloud" that he feels shrouded by. Also, the song is sung with such intensity and variation. At the beginning, the “Dying Sun” is sung at forte. As the piece progresses, the volume of voices ranges. The part saying “night without our moon” is sung very quietly. This can represent the extreme ranges of feelings and emotions that Pasiphae felt during his emotional rollercoaster.
DeleteI am posting on behalf of Sahana:
ReplyDeleteWhen we first got this piece, the motif that struck me initially was "dying sun" because of the intensity with which it is sung at the beginning. "Dying sun" presents a rather depressing image, as the sun is something we rely on as a constant, and something which enables all life to exist. This is probably why Robert Graves chose this unsettling imagery, because the piece is meant to be a lament. A lament, as implied by its usage in common day language, is a piece of music expressing grief, regret, or mourning. This piece is a lament for Pasiphaë, an early Kretan moon-goddess who was forced to give birth to a minotaur after she or her husband offended the gods. In the legend, it is implied that was happened to Pasiphaë was unfair and that she was punished too harshly. In the poem, we see Robert Graves trying to justify Pasiphaë... "Faithless she was not: she was very woman, until spring's cuckoo with bedraggled plumes tempted her pity and her truth betrayed." Perhaps this passage is saying that Pasiphaë's innocence and pity was taken advantage of by people with bad intentions (bedraggled plumes). The poem, as a whole, expresses remorse and guilt for what happened to Pasiphaë and encourages the "dying sun," the dying hope, to "shine warm a little longer." Robert Graves' language seems to reference mythology in several places in the poem, an example of which is, "... That this must be a night without a moon." Pasiphaë is the moon-goddess, and therefore, cursing her is like having a night without a moon. Dying sun could also refer to the fact that Pasiphaë is the daughter of Helios, the sun god, and he is not showing any mercy on his daughter. Apart from its mythological significance, dying sun also represents the loss of innocence and hope. Pasiphaë, a beautiful, innocent immortal, was cursed and put to shame. "Eye dazzled with tears" contributes to the idea that this piece is a lament, and gives more imagery that is mournful. Pasiphaë's tearful story will evoke pity from others, which is why her eye, dazzled with tears, shall "dazzle yours." "You, sun, and I all afternoon have laboured beneath a dewless and oppressive cloud" could be referring to the fact that, like a dying sun covered up by clouds that will not provide any rain, Pasiphaë's innocence is being chocked by an oppressive force- her curse. In general, I feel that this poem is about the loss of innocence and the sad impact this has on Pasiphaë's life.
~Sahana
Posting on behalf of Natalie T.:
ReplyDeleteOne thing that is repeated many times in the poem is "dying sun, shine warm a little longer". This could be a reference to many things. First, it could be a reference to her innocence and control over her life. According to the legend of Pasiphae, she was cursed by Poseidon to lust for the bull. This is a thing that she really could not control. I think that the first stanza refers to her struggle against her lust for the bull. When the poem says "conjuring you to shine and not to move", it could refer to her wish to keep herself herself and keep her self-control shining unmovingly. The "dewless and oppressive cloud" refers to Poseidon's curse, which oppresses her and separates her from her sun of self control like a cloud separates her from the sun. When she refers to the night without a moon, she is referring to the night that is coming without even the bit of sun that lights up the moon to keep her sane.
The second stanza refers to her after/during her deed of bestiality with the bull. It begins by defending her. She is "very woman", the poem says and not "faithless". When it says "then she who shone for all resigned her being", it refers to the sun of herself inside, that dies. While in the first stanza, it says "that this must be a night without a moon", in the second it says "and this must be a night without a moon". The use of that instead of and refers to speculation in the first stanza, and the use of and in the second stanza refers to the finality of the act. It WILL be a night without a moon, not just MAY be.
Of course, the use of the sun as imagery for herself is clearly a reference to her father, the sun god Helios, who was somewhat dying in Ancient Greek culture as his traditional duties became more and more associated with Apollo. So the use of a "dying sun" may be referring not only to her loss of self control, but also the decreasing role of her father.
~Natalie T.
Posting on behalf of Jessica Lin:
ReplyDeleteI agree that this text is definitely related to Graves’ background as well as Pasiphae’s background, as said in earlier posts, but I feel that Graves wrote this poem to bring the story more to life. He didn’t only tell the story, but wrote the text to illustrate characters’ feelings and their point of views at different times in the story.
I think that throughout the poem, Graves compares the story of Pasiphae with the seasons of the year to make it more relatable to singers and audiences alike. Graves compares Pasiphae’s affair with the bull to winter, which can be seen in II. Like Snow and III. She Tells Her Loves While Half Asleep. The text includes words like “snow”, “dark light”, and unmelted tracks” – all words that correlate with winter. Graves also uses words like “drowsy eye” , “drew the curtains close”, “half asleep”, and “stirs in her winter sleep” to make a connection to winter. Usually in the winter, animals hibernate, the green life of summer turns to white and gray, and everything is passive and unmoving. By using this image of dreary, motionless winter, Graves communicates Pasiphae’s position when she’s under the curse that attracted her to the bull. Under this curse, Pasiphae is not in control of her own actions, which Graves compares to being asleep. In part IV. Mid-Winter Waking, I think Graves is expressing Pasiphae’s feelings as she awakes from the curse and realizes her actions with phrases such as “stirring suddenly from long hibernation”, “presently dared open both my eyes” and “be witness that on waking, this midwinter”. Cleverly, Graves continues the seasonal correlation through descriptions of springtime (“expected season of new blossom”, “sudden warm airs that blow”, “who shall watch out the Spring with me”, etc.) so that people that readers can feel the awakening as well.
Whenever you hear this story you always hear it from Pasiphae’s point of view, how she found out about Midas’ adulterous actions, how she was extremely angry, and how she cursed him. But you never hear the story from Midas’ point of view. In the final section, V. Intercession in Late October, Graves brings Midas alive and tells the story in his point of view. Graves describes Midas to be reclining “on drifts of yellow sand” and “fearless of moaning reed or sullen wave”. In other words, Graves describes Midas to be carefree, relaxed, and not worrying about anything. Graves’ message to the reader, however, is that Midas’ perfect world is soon to fall apart. In the very last stanza as well as in the title, Graves hints at the coming of winter, which in this song correlates to bad times and suffering. By naming this last section “Intercession in Late October”, Graves foreshadows the fall of Midas when Pasiphae finds out about his behavior and curses him.
Therefore, returning to the first section “Lament for Pasiphae”, I believe that Graves used the whole seasonal motif thing to describe Pasiphae’s character and situation. “Dying sun” may refer to a change of seasons to winter, when the time of sunshine gets shorter in the Northern Hemisphere. “Beneath a dewless and oppressive cloud” goes on to refer to a changing of weather and the seasons. Graves’ correlation of winter and suffering makes me think that this section really is a lament for Pasiphae. It laments her loss of innocence (as said before) as the sun disappears into the gray clouds and sleep of winter, or, in other words, as she falls under the curse.
Post on behalf on Libby Rosenfield:
ReplyDeleteWow a lot of great comments! To me, the poem (including the rest of the Mid-
Winter songs) is a reflection on Robert Graves’s interpretation of Pasiphae’s life
story and his own personal experiences. First of all, it seems mythology was a
significant part of Graves’s life and greatly influenced his thinking and writing.
From an early age, he was introduced to mythology from his father who was a
scholar and poet with a passion for mythology. It seems that the fascination for
mythology was passed down, since he himself wrote about the “white goddess”
and other mythological references.
It seems like his fascination is not only due to family influence, but also personal
experiences. Like Pasiphae—the immortal daughter of the sun God—Graves had
a somewhat troubled life. He was serviceman in the war and spent a lot of time
in the trenches—which we all know how absolutely appalling those conditions
were. He became severely wounded multiple times in the war. Furthermore, he
and his first wife separated. We can see how his experiences, especially fighting
in the war, influence his poem—His use of images, phrases and words such as
“dying sun”, “laboured beneath the dewless and oppressive cloud”, “a night
without a moon” adds a sort of sad, disturbing feel which reflect that of his own
history.